Post your thoughts

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by Adje

Hey, it's not the quantity that's left, but the quality

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

But it is post your thoughts after all ... good or bad thoughts notwithstanding ... ?

True.
But to write off the whole forum as people with no perspective, because you don't agree with what some people think, is a little extreme and offensive.

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

but the views of many here are sometimes too much to stomach.

That's a door that swings both ways.
I'm sure there are people on the forum who think my views are too much at times, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't post them.
Everyone has their own point of view, and we (the staff) do our best to make sure that everyone is able to post that point of view in an open minded and respectul atmosphere.
We will defend your right to your point of view, even if we do not agree with it.

The incident (I believe) that prompted this discussion was the deletion of a post that was heading deeper into an off topic row on a on topic thread. That, you know, is something that we do at our discression to keep threads on track and open.

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

I understand your point - while being equally offended by the sentiment ...

I don't mean to be overly offensive, just blunt
I've been a member of another forum, and because I didn't agree with the views of another member I left the forum. I found this persons views personally insulting, which in turn prevented me from enjoying the forum, so I left it.

We do everything we can to keep the playing field level and make sure all voices are heard. So to read comments like the ones i've quoted feels like biting the hand that feeds.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

The incident (I believe) that prompted this discussion was the deletion of a post that was heading deeper into an off topic row on a on topic thread. That, you know, is something that we do at our discression to keep threads on track and open.

Yet had that quote had stated the oposite it would be still here. Despite the fact others disagree with that statement. Which says more about the people wanted it removed and the folks removing them.

Of course that is if we are talking about the same (non offensive) quote

At least YOU know now you're not on my ignore list

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

The incident (I believe) that prompted this discussion was the deletion of a post that was heading deeper into an off topic row on a on topic thread.

I wasn't going to say any more on this but since you're bringing it up... In case you refer to one of my posts that got deleted as soon as it was submitted - that post clearly referred to what had been said on that thread. If it's allowed to degrade the work of other artists but not allowed to wonder why some people are keen on doing that, I wonder where the "respect" that is so much talked about on here and the "right to one's point of view" are to be found.

FYI: The question I asked (or rather the thought I posted) was a rather global one, based on a couple of observations I made recently. If I had been keen on a discussion like the one you just started, I would have posted something in the Feedback Central section instead. Now that would have been fun...

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

But to write off the whole forum as people with no perspective, because you don't agree with what some people think, is a little extreme and offensive.

But when virtually everything everyone says is sycophantic and fawning, I think that's a lack of perspective, and equally extreme.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

We will defend your right to your point of view, even if we do not agree with it.

Thank you - let's not argue about it then

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

So to read comments like the ones i've quoted feels like biting the hand that feeds.

As I said before I wasn't being critical of the forum or the people who run it, just some of the members. I don't think you're feeding me, but I'm certainly not biting your hand ...

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Adje

Yet had that quote had stated the oposite it would be still here.

You mean if it was the opposite of off topic?
I'd have to agree with you there

Originally Posted by Adje

Which says more about the people wanted it removed and the folks removing them.

We received a reported post, a mod (not me in this instance) took a look, made a judgement, and acted accordingly.

From reading the post and reading the complaint, I can say that I would have done the same. Although in my case I might have hacked some more portions out of some more posts.

Originally Posted by Adje

Of course that is if we are talking about the same (non offensive) quote

OK, let me throw this down and see if I can explain my point of view on this. The post in question was about Meat Vs other artists and was posted in a review thread.

A long time ago, in a galaxy faf far away (OK, Chorley) a ML tribute act took offence to people posting reviews that said stuff like "Steve Steinman in the best Meat Loaf tribute". Or "Pete Loaf is the worlds greatest", or "The Flying Mouse beats them all". OK, I added the last one

This persons point was that you coult not possibly say somebody was "the best" unless you had seen every Meat Loaf tribute in the world do a performance.

That, I believe, is daft.
But I had to personally defend this burks point every time someone said "someone is the best", and usually getting the height of abuse for my pains.
Remember what I said about how we defend people we don't agree with? this was walking talking proof.

There's nothing wrong with people saying "Meat's the best" "Meat's the greatest" "nobody puts on a show like Meat".
There's nothing wrong with this because it's what is in the persons heart.
They might not be very educated because they might not have seen all these acts perform in person.
Even if they had, as far as i'm aware there is no universally used scale to meassure accuratly how good or enjoyable a show is.

Take a post like that for what it is. Heartfelt opinion, even though it has no basis in FACT.

Doesn't mean people cannot expess their feelings.

I'm sure there are people on Westlife forums that say "nobody does it like Westlife". I'm inclined to agree, which is why i'm not a fan of theirs
But I feel no offense or compulsion toi go and correct them that Meat Loaf is CLEARLY a supperior performer, and his songs are a hell of a lot better.

It has never upset me when someone has said "someone is the best Meat trib in the world". It doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Arguing the toss over wheather Meat is better than someone else, just because a fan said it on a thread that's dealing with reviews of a concert, is, with all due respect, on par with that trib demanding that nobody be crowned king of the hill without scientific proof

It had no place on the thread, and was going to drag it off topic till it was locked.
That's why it was removed.

Originally Posted by Adje

At least YOU know now you're not on my ignore list

Who said that?

[Adje]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Bla bla bla

OK, let me throw this down and see if I can explain my point of view on this. The post in question was about Meat Vs other artists and was posted in a review thread.

blah blah blah

Nope, we're actually talking about another post LOL

The one I referred to is from another member and has the removed passage still quoted in the reply following it (still makes sense?)

Anyway, completely different stuff...

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

this burk

The most accurate statement on this forum all weekend.

[Sarge]

Good Lord... I typed five little words and it ends up in references to someone whose name cannot/must not even be mentioned here... Another Guinness...

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sarge

that post clearly referred to what had been said on that thread. If it's allowed to degrade the work of other artists but not allowed to wonder why some people are keen on doing that, I wonder where the "respect" that is so much talked about on here and the "right to one's point of view" are to be found.

Again.
A report was made.
The mod in question saw the report had merit.
The post was deleted.

If you believe a post is disrespectul hit the report button, explain your case to the team, and if we think your point is valid we will act appropriatly.

Personally I would have been happy to delete the comments saying other acts were put to shame, but you didn't report it for our attention, so don't blame us that your point is overlooked

Originally Posted by Sarge

FYI: The question I asked (or rather the thought I posted) was a rather global one, based on a couple of observations I made recently. If I had been keen on a discussion like the one you just started, I would have posted something in the Feedback Central section instead. Now that would have been fun...

And it would have run exactly like this one I think

I'd still be saying the same old lines.

"We do what we can to ensure freedom of speech in a respectful enviroment."

"If you don't like something, report it to us and make your case so we can act on it."

There's only so many times I can say that.

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

But when virtually everything everyone says is sycophantic and fawning, I think that's a lack of perspective, and equally extreme.

If that was true there wouldn't be half as many clashes on this forum.
I don't think some of the people posting in this thread right now would ever discribe themselves as sycophants

But clashes there are.

We've been told by Meat and Paul we are not supportive enough.............

....told by a group of fans that we don't do enough to make this a place of positivity for Meat..............

....and told by another group of fans that we are sycophats who delete anything we don't agree with and abuse their rights to free speech.


Usually all at the same time.

Ladies and Gentelmen, welcome to no mans land

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

As I said before I wasn't being critical of the forum or the people who run it, just some of the members. I don't think you're feeding me, but I'm certainly not biting your hand ...

Yeah, sorry, it's the best saying I could come up with at the time
We're not feeding the members here, but we are supplying a platform for our members to air their views.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Adje

Nope, we're actually talking about another post LOL

The one I referred to is from another member and has the removed passage still quoted in the reply following it (still makes sense?)

Anyway, completely different stuff...

I liked the "blah blah blah" you put in my quote

Originally Posted by Evil One

The most accurate statement on this forum all weekend.

[Father Jack Hackett]

AWARD! AWARD!

PHOTO!

[/Father Jack Hackett]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Good Lord... I typed five little words and it ends up in references to someone whose name cannot/must not even be mentioned here... Another Guinness...

What can I say, I see a direct link between the two discussions

[Evil One]

You would like to be awarded a photo of the Pork?

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

If you believe a post is disrespectul hit the report button, explain your case to the team, and if we think your point is valid we will act appropriatly.

I favor an open discussion over reporting posts that don't violate any forum rules. If I reported every post I disagree with, I'd probably be busy with hitting the report button all day at times. I'd rather read what the person I disagree with has to say than request posts to be edited or deleted.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

[Father Jack Hackett]

AWARD! AWARD!

PHOTO!

[/Father Jack Hackett]

YouTube Video

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

If that was true there wouldn't be half as many clashes on this forum. I don't think some of the people posting in this thread right now would ever describe themselves as sycophants

I was exaggerating to make a point - but there is a large sycophantic element here in my opinion.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

We've been told by Meat and Paul we are not supportive enough.............

....told by a group of fans that we don't do enough to make this a place of positivity for Meat..............

....and told by another group of fans that we are sycophants who delete anything we don't agree with and abuse their rights to free speech.

Usually all at the same time.

Its a tough job I agree, but I'm not aware (but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong) that anyone reports the overly sycophantic posts, but anything perceived to be critical tends to get pounced on or reported, and then deleted as a result.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I favor an open discussion over reporting posts that don't violate any forum rules. If I reported every post I disagree with, I'd probably be busy with hitting the report button all day at times. I'd rather read what the person I disagree with has to say than request posts to be edited or deleted.

Well that's your privlidge, but don't blame us for taking others peoples point of view into consideration when they are the only ones sharing their views with us.

Originally Posted by Evil One

You would like to be awarded a photo of the Pork?

I'm a little disturbed that you have such media to offer

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I'm a little disturbed that you have such media to offer

I shall dig some out of my tour trailer once I get it out of Tesco's car park.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I favor an open discussion over reporting posts that don't violate any forum rules. If I reported every post I disagree with, I'd probably be busy with hitting the report button all day at times. I'd rather read what the person I disagree with has to say than request posts to be edited or deleted.

This

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Well that's your privlidge, but don't blame us for taking others peoples point of view into consideration when they are the only ones sharing their views with us.

I haven't blamed anything on anybody, it was you who referred to the deleted post. I just stated my point of view on your action in response to your statements on this thread. As for the term "privilege" - let's say I obviously just have another concept of discussion than other members of this board.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

I was exaggerating to make a point - but there is a large sycophantic element here in my opinion.

It's a fan club, what you gonna do

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

Its a tough job I agree, but I'm not aware (but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong) that anyone reports the overly sycophantic posts, but anything perceived to be critical tends to get pounced on or reported, and then deleted as a result.

Any report that we get is given even attention.
No matter who it's from, no matter what it's about.
If you have a valid case to make then we will look at it.

As i've said, if we recieived a report saying, in a logical and convincing manner, that to say Meat puts hard working artists like Elton John and Billy Joel to shame is disrespectful, I would tend to agree with that sentiment and delete/edit the post, and post on the thread asking for the thread to go a little more on topic.

I would personally find someone saying Meat is the best about as harmless, innocent, and ill meant as saying Andy Pryke is the greatest trib ever (I find nothing wrong with enthusiasm) but I would take the point on board and act on it accordingly.

No report = no point of view made to the mod team.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I haven't blamed anything on anybody, it was you who referred to the deleted post.

Sorry, I assumed that the deleted post had prompted the discussion on this thread.
But then again, Assume makes an ass out of me and you

Originally Posted by Sarge

I just stated my point of view on your action in response to your statements on this thread.

Sorry, you'll have to run that by me again.
What action of mine?

Originally Posted by Sarge

As for the term "privilege" - let's say I obviously just have another concept of discussion than other members of this board.

But that discussion didn't belong in that thread, did it?
So when someone made the report, it was acted upon.

There seems to be a trend sometimes (perhaps it's just me ) that the more on topic the thread, the more off topic the rows get. Especially once Meat has posted in the thread. But that's one for the conspiracy sites I suppose.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

As i've said, if we recieived a report saying, in a logical and convincing manner, that to say Meat puts hard working artists like Elton John and Billy Joel to shame is disrespectful, I would tend to agree with that sentiment and delete/edit the post, and post on the thread asking for the thread to go a little more on topic.

It might be disrespectful but it's not violating forum rules (at least none that I'm aware of right now), hence I wouldn't report it. There's a huge difference between not liking / disagreeing with a post and a post not being in accordance with the rules.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I find nothing wrong with enthusiasm

There's nothing wrong with thinking and/or saying that Meat Loaf is the greatest artist on earth. It's just not fair to say that particular other reputable artists are less hard-working, especially if these artists are not directly comparable to Meat Loaf. That was my point and I'm sure you're smart enough to get it.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

No report = no point of view made to the mod team.

You know my point of view, it was expressed in the post you erased. Again, I don't want the posts you refer to be deleted. I just disagreed with one or two sentences of the respective comments. I'm interested in why someone says what they say. That's why I posted the comment you eleminated. I won't get to know if I just hit the "report" button and/or request removal. Besides, that would be quite unfair to the poster, in my opinion.

I don't understand why you are that eager to continue this discussion by harping on the same things over and over. This is going nowhere and I'm not keen on wasting another Sunday night with silly arguments on this forum. I'm too old for this.

[Sarge]

Tired... need coffee... no, wait... I don't like coffee... Damn Mondays!

[melon]

Try a guiness?

[Sarge]

Not while having to work.