Post your thoughts

[Adje]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

So it sounds like you both thoroughly disagree with Meat then and that he is DANG WRONG?

I know it was not meant for me but actually I think Meat is wrong. Although Trump is intelligent he also is an idiot.

And I think Meat forgot the upset when Bush beat, sorta beat Al Gore. Something with popular vote...

The person who gets elected President is not necersary the 'correct' person to be President.

But what did the Donald state about a former Miss Universe? After he called her Miss Piggy (for gaining some weight) he now dismisses her on Twitter as a bad person for having a sextape. She probably doesn't have a sextape but did a nude photoshoot for Playboy. Well Mrs Trump apparently did some nudes too, but that's fine with me. My point is, calling someone Miss Piggy as an insult and claiming 'a person is bad for having a sextape' (which seems not true) is something only an idiot would say. Especially to use it in his own benefit during a presidential campaign.

And that's the problem with Trump. Something like this pops up every so many days. How can you even respect a person who should represent a Nation but putting away women (and other groups of people) like this?

Trump is an idiot.

[duke knooby]

did al gore manage to become the worlds first carbon billionaire?

He certainly made a fortune from pedalling the scare stories.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

So it sounds like you both thoroughly disagree with Meat then and that he is DANG WRONG?

I think he has consciously avoided getting involved in passing comment on the issue in interviews, which is commendable. I can't remember the exact phrasing of his reply each time .. but it's on the lines of ' .. there's a process, and that will take place and the right candidate will be elected' .. which could equally to be taken to mean "right" in terms of elected by a democratic majority, so in terms of a democratic process obviously whoever the Americans pick would be the 'right president' for the next 4 years .. unless there's a chad scandal again

Whether Trump winning would be a GOOD thing is another issue .. and Meat knows I don't believe it would be good, and if he thought it would that I'm in the DANG opposite camp

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Adje

BTW I also don't know what Bono or Springsteen said. But Bruce has always been a vocal Democrat. So there would be no surprise if he is vocal during the coming elections. And the immaturity (again, I haven't heared anything he said) does fit the Republican candidate who hasn't stayed clear from stating his own immature opinions. And that's the Presidential candidate FCOL

I'm not sure what Andrew was referring to as "immature"- there was a Tweet going around that was attributed to Bruce, but it actually came from a satire account (which I think is hilarious, but that's beside the point).

As far as I know, there are a couple of things that Bruce has said publicly- he did call Trump a "moron", which I am shocked at, because Bruce just doesn't do that. I can only assume that he must feel very strongly about it for that to happen. Here's the article: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...-moron-w441761

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say he's a moron- one doesn't achieve what Trump has without some intelligence (though I agree with Caryl that it's more like "cunning"). Though Penn Jillette, whom I do consider to be very intelligent, has also stated that he doesn't think Trump is that smart. (He also said he was told that he wouldn't win Celebrity Apprentice unless he said he would support Trump in a presidential bid, and you see how that turned out.)

Here's also a link to what Bruce said on a Swedish talk show, and it's almost as if he put my own thoughts into words better than I could myself: http://youtu.be/z-cpbxz7jlc (I find his comments to be thoughtful and not immature at all.) *See below for the full interview.

As an American, I do find it embarrassing that this is what some consider to be the "best" person for the job. I think we would be a laughing stock before the rest of the world if he becomes president, and rightly so. I never thought he'd actually get the nomination- I thought his own party had more sense than that.

Trump does what is good for Trump- make no mistake. He is excellent at telling people what they want to hear, and I'm stunned that so many don't see through it. He will latch onto any "cause" if he thinks it can get him attention and/or votes. For the first time in my life, I am genuinely worried about the possibility of a certain candidate getting into office.

Edit: The above clip of the Swedish TV interview is edited- the full thing is here- the discussion about Trump starts at 17:10:
http://youtu.be/1XZWmpWbinY (As an aside, I think this is the best interview I have ever seen Bruce do- the whole thing is very worth watching.)

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Adje

I know it was not meant for me but actually I think Meat is wrong. Although Trump is intelligent he also is an idiot.

And I think Meat forgot the upset when Bush beat, sorta beat Al Gore. Something with popular vote...

The person who gets elected President is not necersary the 'correct' person to be President.

But what did the Donald state about a former Miss Universe? After he called her Miss Piggy (for gaining some weight) he now dismisses her on Twitter as a bad person for having a sextape. She probably doesn't have a sextape but did a nude photoshoot for Playboy. Well Mrs Trump apparently did some nudes too, but that's fine with me. My point is, calling someone Miss Piggy as an insult and claiming 'a person is bad for having a sextape' (which seems not true) is something only an idiot would say. Especially to use it in his own benefit during a presidential campaign.

And that's the problem with Trump. Something like this pops up every so many days. How can you even respect a person who should represent a Nation but putting away women (and other groups of people) like this?

Trump is an idiot.

Adje you might find this video interesting on the fat shaming thing.


https://youtu.be/rwVxJFF6afA


You might not believe anything that that guy is saying but Donald Trump definitely came to the defence of miss piggy at some point as you can see.


Also what always surprises me is that people accuse Trump for saying a lot bad of things quite often but then.... say bad things about him. Two wrongs don't make a right even if I understand the reason for it.


Finally I honestly think the media is hugely exaggerating issues concerning Donald Trump. The same media who only reports on Meat Loaf when he has collapsed on stage or was in poor voice to sell newspapers or get you via click bait. they have tried to tear down Meats character many times and I see the same happen with Trump right now.

The question of whether he is fit to run is definitely up for debate but I seriously think people should try to investigate what is going on here for themselves before jumping on the hate bandwagon so easily.

Thank you for your time once again.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Also what always surprises me is that people accuse Trump for saying a lot bad of things quite often but then.... say bad things about him. Two wrongs don't make a right even if I understand the reason for it.

Here's why there's a problem:

YouTube Video

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

The question of whether he is fit to run is definitely up for debate but I seriously think people should try to investigate what is going on here for themselves before jumping on the hate bandwagon so easily.

As you're posting here I have to wonder if you include us in the people you refer to. I always DO investigate, never accept a click bait headline, but search for evidence that he has made this or that outlandish statement .. the bizarre Tweets, video footage of him making the statement .. and find more than enough to support my view of this man, including watching the recent debate live. I've yet to find a cogent and tenable policy expressed to achieve the outcomes he promises, I have seen and heard him ridicule those who have challenged him, encourage bullying at his rallies, make outlandish threats, and flatly deny he has said things I have heard him say a matter of weeks or even days before. I'm not facile, nor jumping on any "hate bandwagon" .. I have followed his campaign, researching as I go, with ever-increasing concern.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I'm convinced there's only one logical explanation for his candidacy:

YouTube Video

[CarylB]

I watched that in spring and thought it hilarious and on the money .. now, 6 months later, "Springtime for Donald and the USA" holds a significant level of frisson of dread behind the laughter ...

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Here's why there's a problem:

I actually thought that was quite a decent argument.

The government being the best of its people would be a great thing to achieve. I doubt however that has been achieved in the past (George W. Bush's terrible lies to convince people to invade Iraq for example).

And the only thing I'd say in response to Penn is that society should be careful with letting political correctness stand in the way of discussing important issues.
A much more focused and decent argument on immigration than Donald Trump, Nigel Farage or myself could ever give for anyone who is interested in watching:

YouTube Video

Originally Posted by CarylB

As you're posting here I have to wonder if you include us in the people you refer to. I always DO investigate, never accept a click bait headline, but search for evidence that he has made this or that outlandish statement .. the bizarre Tweets, video footage of him making the statement .. and find more than enough to support my view of this man, including watching the recent debate live. I've yet to find a cogent and tenable policy expressed to achieve the outcomes he promises, I have seen and heard him ridicule those who have challenged him, encourage bullying at his rallies, make outlandish threats, and flatly deny he has said things I have heard him say a matter of weeks or even days before. I'm not facile, nor jumping on any "hate bandwagon" .. I have followed his campaign, researching as I go, with ever-increasing concern.

I've read all the responses and thank everyone for their time in debating. I disagree with AnotherDay for saying about the matter "End of Story" and glad it wasn't end of story. No one's opinion is the final solution, in my opinion it is THAT what is bigotry.

If you have made up your mind and investigated of course that is fine. I never said the sun shines out of Trump's ass.
I just think what is going on is similar to the ganging up mentality that two people had to endure:

• Meat Loaf with the Australian Press. Because he gave a bad performance in 2011 now anything he does in their eyes is crap and they still try to refer back to his performance as if he committed a crime.
• The Twitter ganging up on Justine Sacco which ruined her life.

There is an interesting Ted talk about the Justine Sacco case if you are interested in watching:

YouTube Video

Now of course Donald Trump has put himself into the limelight and probably knew what he was going in for but I still think the outrage at what he is saying seems to be worse than the things he has said himself. People digging up dirt on his family etc. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, I am merely pointing out the ganging up is very easy to be part of and not notice it. I am sure I have been part of such things in the past myself.
There's just Both Sides to a story quite often.

The Alicia Machado case is one of the best recent examples where people accuse Trump of fat shaming but you will find she has done the same and actually worse much more punishable things.

This doesn't mean I think people should gang up on Alicia Machado or Hillary Clinton, I just think the ganging up on Trump is exaggerated when there are more important matters to think off.

I was shocked when I saw this footage of a guy wearing an "MAGA" hat in a Black Lives Matter rally. It comes across that parts of the Black Lives Matters club is far more dangerous than anything they are protesting about.
Sure you can say he should have known that wearing a MAGA hat in THAT crowd was stupid but did he really deserve what he got for it?? I don't think so.

YouTube Video

The ganging up of people can often lead to worse things (I admit Trump is perhaps causing the same on the other side). But so far the actual physical violence doesn't seem to be coming from his supporters I believe (there were a few assholes at rallies I admit, but not entire crowds such as in the MAGA hat case where someone could have died!). This does not mean that in the future this cannot turn or have negative effects on minorities. I just think people need to think for themselves more rather than just believe what they read in print/online.
In that light it is Meat Loaf's dignified response that really stood out to me rather than the name calling which almost all celebrities are doing. Look at UK TV shows where they have celebrities. Just yesterday I caught a bit of Graham Norton (hardly ever watch it to be honest) and the American celebrities again seemed the Trump thing is a joke, a turn off, something they rather not think about. So Hillary wins by default for them. Hardly any negatives are mentioned about her on the UK to the point there isn't even any debate about which policies she stands for. I think this is a huge disadvantage to her actually. I really am not so sure about if she is so easily deserving of the presidency without any debate. But again I would respect the outcome if she does win it. However the amnesia card definitely seems to be played by Barack Obama (why a sitting president can so easily devote so much time to hand over the reigns I don't understand??). Listen to some of the stuff he was saying about Hillary Clinton:

YouTube Video

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I'm convinced there's only one logical explanation for his candidacy:

Another great video and very funny. I love The Producers film (the original).

The only thing that always worries me is that it appears to be politically correct to call white people racists so easily. I'm not so sure they could make that same joke about another race of people. White people are btw not the majority around the world.

Finally let's end on a funny thing:

YouTube Video

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I watched that in spring and thought it hilarious and on the money .. now, 6 months later, "Springtime for Donald and the USA" holds a significant level of frisson of dread behind the laughter ...

I still think that IF you think you have the moral high ground and want to be politically correct making that comparison is also quite immoral.

I've visited the dreadful remains of some of the outcome of Adolf's policies and actions in Poland. I'm not so sure Trump's policies / business deals etc hold the same destructive impact AT ALL on this planet currently and would appear in the future regardless of what happens over the next 4-8 years.

But this is my personal opinion.

(Interesting to note Adolf's last name is banned from this site. This I think is a good thing so we can't call each other that. I've never seen Trump ever call someone else that. I think it is sad other people think it is fine to call him that. Again I think it is a massive exaggeration)

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I still think that IF you think you have the moral high ground and want to be politically correct making that comparison is also quite immoral.

I've visited the dreadful remains of some of the outcome of Adolf's policies and actions in Poland. I'm not so sure Trump's policies / business deals etc hold the same destructive impact AT ALL on this planet currently and would appear in the future regardless of what happens over the next 4-8 years.

But this is my personal opinion.

And this mine :) I don't say I have the moral high ground, but I do believe mine is somewhat higher than Trump's. My comparison flowed directly from the video you found great and funny.

Trump's appealing to the fearful and the worried by targeting key identifiable groups as the root of so many ills is very concerning to me, just as a key plank in the Brexit rhetoric did. I too have seen the remains of the terrible outcomes in 40s Germany, and whilst genocide on such a scale is not something absent in the world, I hope and trust we will not see it again in our countries/societies. What IS to me worrying is how much bigotry does still reside in people's minds/hearts, and how when used as a platform in a campaign it serves somehow to legitimise that bigotry for some. We have seen an increase here in the UK post-Brexit, I have seen friends here made to experience fear for the first time in decades, even in their lives, because of their ancestry. There is evidence that Trump's campaign is having a similar effect in the USA. I am reminded again of Pastor Niemoller's words .. and that all that is required for evil to flourish is for others to stand by and say nothing. There is a kernel of evil in many people's hearts still .. and to play on and to that with grandiose populist statements in the pursuit of power is at best irresponsible, at worst wickedly indifferent to the likely result. That puts the level of moral ground on which Trump stands way below mine, and that of many others.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Adje you might find this video interesting on the fat shaming thing.


https://youtu.be/rwVxJFF6afA


You might not believe anything that that guy is saying but Donald Trump definitely came to the defence of miss piggy at some point as you can see.

I believe he came up for her AFTER calling her a miss Piggy. Which seems the regular case with Trump. He says a lot. Look at his campaign, his twitter etc. and when he is asked about it it's either misunderstood, wrongly quoted or untrue. "I didn't say that" is almost a new catchphrase for the guy

Also what always surprises me is that people accuse Trump for saying a lot bad of things quite often but then.... say bad things about him. Two wrongs don't make a right even if I understand the reason for it.

I agree. It is not classy. But I see it this way. Those people are stupid enough to lower themselves at his level but at least they are not up for the high office. It's almost like calling my school principal a fat ~~~~~~~. You don't expect the principal to stoop down my level and call me that as well. With Trump... well he rises above no one.

Finally I honestly think the media is hugely exaggerating issues concerning Donald Trump. The same media who only reports on Meat Loaf when he has collapsed on stage or was in poor voice to sell newspapers or get you via click bait. they have tried to tear down Meats character many times and I see the same happen with Trump right now.

The question of whether he is fit to run is definitely up for debate but I seriously think people should try to investigate what is going on here for themselves before jumping on the hate bandwagon so easily.

Sure the media blows things up. Then again I based my dislike for this person pure on his own words and retribution. The media can point out what they want but even then it's not like they scripted him. He does that on his own. And yes, after Trump had a babydaughter about 18 years ago and saying on tv that he hopes she gets her mom's big tits. Not classy but a mistake from the past. (although it shows where his mind is). And I let that slip. So I base myself mainly on what he says since running (Calling the Miss a bad person is from this campaign because Hillary brought the Fat pig comment up.

Andrew, I honest to God do not get what you appreciate in this guy. As I said, the more he speaks the less I respect him as a human being. Simply listen to some of his rallys. Listen how he responds on what the crowd is chanting. Listen to what he suggested. How he plays with his words.

“If she gets to pick her judges ― nothing you can do, folks. Although, the Second Amendment people. Maybe there is. I don’t know.”

How is this for a future leader. Suggesting THIS is not even funny if it was said sarcastically. And Andrew, since he has been running lots of misplaced, may I call them sick, comments have been made by this man.

I remember a rally with Mitt Romney 4 years ago where someone was calling Obama a Muslim or whatever and Romney corrected that person. That shows some leadership.

Again, I feel this strongly against him because he is trying to get one of the biggest positions in the World. He should lead by example. I don't care if he says those things as a businessman. As a citizen. Although many of it is still repulsive. But atleast then it is not said by someone who is suposed to lead an entire country.

And why Trump makes those same mistakes, over and over again during his campaign is very obvious. It is who he is.

And I appreciate people sticking up for him. Trying to defend him by blaming anyone but him. But even for them there is no begin and no ending to where to start defending. Because, and I say it again, Trump is an idiot.

[CarylB]

Agree with all of that Adje .. in particular this

... the more he speaks the less I respect him as a human being. Simply listen ... how he plays with his words.

“If she gets to pick her judges ― nothing you can do, folks. Although, the Second Amendment people. Maybe there is. I don’t know.”
How is this for a future leader. Suggesting THIS is not even funny if it was said sarcastically. And Andrew, since he has been running lots of misplaced, may I call them sick, comments have been made by this man.

I remember a rally with Mitt Romney 4 years ago where someone was calling Obama a Muslim or whatever and Romney corrected that person. That shows some leadership.

Again, I feel this strongly against him because he is trying to get one of the biggest positions in the World. He should lead by example. I don't care if he says those things as a businessman. As a citizen. Although to many of it is still repulsive. But at least then it is not said by someone who is supposed to lead an entire country.

And why Trump makes those same mistakes, over and over again during his campaign is very obvious. It is who he is.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Adje

I believe he came up for her AFTER calling her a miss Piggy. Which seems the regular case with Trump. He says a lot. Look at his campaign, his twitter etc. and when he is asked about it it's either misunderstood, wrongly quoted or untrue. "I didn't say that" is almost a new catchphrase for the guy

I still don't see any evidence of what you simply assume. Moreover WHY Clinton brought this person up in a presidential debate is frankly incredible considering this person's past. BTW just before the debate the Wiki page had been amended to remove all the bad stuff about her. Clinton played a "Trumpcard" and that was very evident I think. This certainly doesn't look good her on her account yet somehow the media don't mind this. Bizarre.

Originally Posted by Adje

I agree. It is not classy. But I see it this way. Those people are stupid enough to lower themselves at his level but at least they are not up for the high office. It's almost like calling my school principal a fat ~~~~~~~. You don't expect the principal to stoop down my level and call me that as well. With Trump... well he rises above no one.

It is a fair enough comment.

Originally Posted by Adje

Sure the media blows things up. Then again I based my dislike for this person pure on his own words and retribution. The media can point out what they want but even then it's not like they scripted him. He does that on his own. And yes, after Trump had a babydaughter about 18 years ago and saying on tv that he hopes she gets her mom's big tits. Not classy but a mistake from the past. (although it shows where his mind is). And I let that slip. So I base myself mainly on what he says since running (Calling the Miss a bad person is from this campaign because Hillary brought the Fat pig comment up.

He has made money from objectiving women sure but those women have made money too. His family seem quite well turned out to me. And the odd goofball thing he's said: Meh I don't mind this so much.

Originally Posted by Adje

Andrew, I honest to God do not get what you appreciate in this guy. As I said, the more he speaks the less I respect him as a human being. Simply listen to some of his rallys. Listen how he responds on what the crowd is chanting. Listen to what he suggested. How he plays with his words.

Between his scatty brain comments (I suffer from this too) I don't believe he is a racist. I see a lot of character assassination by the media, especially since he decided to run. You mentioned Mitt Romney. Trump was the best guy in the world to him back in 2012. Now all of a sudden the worst. Hmmm. When Meat Loaf has been on the receiving end of character assassination in the press plenty came to his defence here. I just don't like when people gang up on one guy and they certainly seem to be doing that through distortions and out of context quotes.

Originally Posted by Adje

How is this for a future leader. Suggesting THIS is not even funny if it was said sarcastically. And Andrew, since he has been running lots of misplaced, may I call them sick, comments have been made by this man.

I think it is out of context and not necessarily a cry to arms but a cry to voting.

Originally Posted by Adje

I remember a rally with Mitt Romney 4 years ago where someone was calling Obama a Muslim or whatever and Romney corrected that person. That shows some leadership.

It's a good thing but Romney hated gays unlike Trump does. He was one of the first to open a gay friendly club in Florida I believe.

Originally Posted by Adje

Again, I feel this strongly against him because he is trying to get one of the biggest positions in the World. He should lead by example. I don't care if he says those things as a businessman. As a citizen. Although many of it is still repulsive. But atleast then it is not said by someone who is suposed to lead an entire country.

And why Trump makes those same mistakes, over and over again during his campaign is very obvious. It is who he is.

And I appreciate people sticking up for him. Trying to defend him by blaming anyone but him. But even for them there is no begin and no ending to where to start defending. Because, and I say it again, Trump is an idiot.

Fair enough.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I still don't see any evidence of what you simply assume. Moreover WHY Clinton brought this person up in a presidential debate is frankly incredible considering this person's past. BTW just before the debate the Wiki page had been amended to remove all the bad stuff about her. Clinton played a "Trumpcard" and that was very evident I think. This certainly doesn't look good her on her account yet somehow the media don't mind this. Bizarre.

Fair enough although you don't call it a 'Trumpcard' for nothing

He has made money from objectiving women sure but those women have made money too. His family seem quite well turned out to me. And the odd goofball thing he's said: Meh I don't mind this so much.


Between his scatty brain comments (I suffer from this too) I don't believe he is a racist. I see a lot of character assassination by the media, especially since he decided to run. You mentioned Mitt Romney. Trump was the best guy in the world to him back in 2012. Now all of a sudden the worst. Hmmm. When Meat Loaf has been on the receiving end of character assassination in the press plenty came to his defence here. I just don't like when people gang up on one guy and they certainly seem to be doing that through distortions and out of context quotes.

That is perhaps an issue on itself. The fact that you don't mind his 'goofball things' from the position he is in (or represents)
As for Romney, I think he has a lot of wrong ideas about a lot of issues. But at least he had the decency to stand up against his rallying crowd when they screamed something untrue. Trump is the kind of person that encourage it. Remeber that protester during his rally for the Republican nomination?

“You know what I hate? There’s a guy totally disruptive, throwing punches, we’re not allowed to punch back anymore. I love the old days. You know what they used to do with guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher, folks." I’d like to punch him in the face, I tell you that,”

Seriously who says this to a rallying crowd? This isn't some cheap Hollywood movie. But I wouldn't vote for either one. I come back on the 'out of context' quotes.

I think it is out of context and not necessarily a cry to arms but a cry to voting.

As I said, I'd come back to it
Andrew, you call it out of context. But you understand what people can read into the comment? Because that is the issue. Trump is well aware of what he said and he said it to start controversity. This is why he is in the media so often. This has been his tactics from the beginning. Now saying the media blows it up, puts it out of context and overexposures is EXACTLY what Trump was aiming for. So you can call the media upon it but it does not change the fact that he used these words for a reason. And dismissing it -making it small- by saying it's out of context is just not doing it. You believe he didn't mean weapons but voting, another may believe exactly the oposit. I also don't believe Trump asked his voters to shoot Hillary. But it's not unlikely some did (even as a joke). I find something like this unacceptabel. And again, this is not the only thing this man said during his run. And it won't be the last questionable thing he says until November (I bet you a Frikandel Speciaal on it)

It's a good thing but Romney hated gays unlike Trump does. He was one of the first to open a gay friendly club in Florida I believe.

As I stated before, not a Mitt fan but wanted to make a point about leadership and the, imo, lack of it during campaign time.

My final thoughts: You say Trump is no racist. This might be true but he has said or done nothing the last year that makes me believe he is not. What he has been doing is a lot of damage control. Because everytime he says or does something , the day after he needs an excuse.

And don't get me wrong, Clinton is no saint. Not even close. But we have two candidates here to chose from. Both with a history and both with flaws. In the end it's clear for me that Trump is the most narcisitc of the two. And that is the last person I want as a President.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

And the only thing I'd say in response to Penn is that society should be careful with letting political correctness stand in the way of discussing important issues.

I don't think that's what Penn was getting at, especially since he seems to be rather politically incorrect himself. And I agree with you that society as whole has become too politically correct. However, there is a huge difference between not being afraid to offend people and being downright dangerous- I believe Trump is the latter.

Now of course Donald Trump has put himself into the limelight and probably knew what he was going in for but I still think the outrage at what he is saying seems to be worse than the things he has said himself. People digging up dirt on his family etc. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, I am merely pointing out the ganging up is very easy to be part of and not notice it. I am sure I have been part of such things in the past myself.
There's just Both Sides to a story quite often.

Standard procedure in any political campaign, unfortunately. Hilary has been criticized and put under a microscope as well. Recently, she was sick with pneumonia, and people were questioning whether she were physically fit enough to hold office. Now, when has that ever happened before? FDR was in a wheelchair, for goodness sake. She can't be called out for making outrageous or offensive public comments because she simply doesn't make them. The mudslinging has been particularly vicious this time, but not unusual in itself.

I was shocked when I saw this footage of a guy wearing an "MAGA" hat in a Black Lives Matter rally. It comes across that parts of the Black Lives Matters club is far more dangerous than anything they are protesting about.
Sure you can say he should have known that wearing a MAGA hat in THAT crowd was stupid but did he really deserve what he got for it?? I don't think so.

Well, if I may quote Mr. Springsteen, "Trust none of what you hear, and less of what you see."

The Black Lives Matter movement hits very close to home for me for many reasons, which I mostly won't get into here. While it seems like a just cause, I do believe there is a great potential for ugliness involved, and I think there is a sinister element that can exploit it and other causes for their own means. The media exacerbates the whole situation as well.

Adje touched on this in his post, and it's my feeling as well, that Trump has the dangerous capacity to appeal to the fringe element of society. If I may be politically incorrect, I think some of those he appeals to are frankly not the most intelligent members of society, and/or mentally unstable- those who can be easily swayed. I think Trump is a rabble-rouser. You may consider his comment about the Second Amendment to refer to voting- other people might not. Using Black Lives Matter as an example, look at the innocent police officers who have been murdered in "retaliation" for shootings by the police. The fact that the individuals doing the killing were mentally unstable doesn't make the situation any less tragic.

Trump also makes a lot of promises, but has no plans to back them up. One particular example- he stated he could end the gun violence that happens in Chicago in a week- laughable enough to make him look like a total fool.

Hardly any negatives are mentioned about her on the UK to the point there isn't even any debate about which policies she stands for.

As I said above, there is plenty negative said about her in the U.S. media.

However the amnesia card definitely seems to be played by Barack Obama (why a sitting president can so easily devote so much time to hand over the reigns I don't understand??). Listen to some of the stuff he was saying about Hillary Clinton:

He was running against her at the time that commercial was made. Both that and him supporting her now is again, standard politics. Don't forget, there was much talk about Hilary being Obama's running mate (before he chose Biden), and she served under him as Secretary of State, so they are not exactly enemies. Of course he's going to endorse her now.

As to why Hilary brought up the "Miss Piggy" incident in the debate, it was a strategy to rattle Trump, and it worked.

[melon]

I have a pen..... I have a pineapple...........

Pen pineapple apple pen......

Goddamnit

[tonyloaf]

this is all very big serious talk on here :)

guy's round???

[Guy]

Originally Posted by tonyloaf

this is all very big serious talk on here :)
I am not round. Just 'plump' Anyway you just worry about topping up your tan in Abu Dhabi. Looooool

guy's round???

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by tonyloaf

this is all very big serious talk on here :)

guy's round???

Last time I saw him he was quite slim still .. he's become spherical?

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by Adje

he said it to start controversity.

Is that where you studied, Adje?

I just went to the regular one, myself.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

Is that where you studied, Adje?

I just went to the regular one, myself.

I went to none myself, because... you know,

when you're important they come to you.

[melon]

So tired... day 12 of a 12 day straight block of work... leaving it until the absolute last moment to get ready lol. Bed is comfy

[melon]

Originally Posted by melon

So tired... day 12 of a 12 day straight block of work... leaving it until the absolute last moment to get ready lol. Bed is comfy

And then 1 hour into said shift, manager calls me and asks me to do a second shift at a different store later in the day.

13 shifts in 12 days, 14 shifts if you count the time I worked at my home store for free the other day because one of the 2 person team didn't show up, so I dropped in to help a mate out after I finished at the store I was at...

Bring on a sleep in tomorrow!