24 Minute interview on PBS

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by cowboy

I'm glad you all like Paul, everytime I say anything it's wrong !! Please change to Paul Crook UK fan Club, and no I am not upset with Paul in any way. There are people here who do not like me at all. I am very confussed. " Meat Loaf UK Fan Club" is that a joke I'm not in on.

I think that's a bit harsh to be honest. I think if you look back the vast majority of the time everyone has been grateful for your posts and information and have said so, we all love you and want you here.

I agree that there are some people here that shouldn't be, and we would love to get rid of them believe you me. But please, please stick around for the vast majority of us who love and support you.

[melon]

Originally Posted by cowboy

I'm glad you all like Paul, everytime I say anything it's wrong !! Please change to Paul Crook UK fan Club, and no I am not upset with Paul in any way. There are people here who do not like me at all. I am very confussed. " Meat Loaf UK Fan Club" is that a joke I'm not in on.

I like ya Meat

[DJLeen]

**hugs** Please stick around here... There are many people here who love you and write positive comments. Pay attention to them and ignore the few dumb ones here who are too stupid to say ever something good.

Love ya. XXX

[evil nickname]

Hi Meat,

Originally Posted by cowboy

Don't believe I got my facts wrong at all, you need to understand the law a little better.

Disclaimer up front: I am neither an US citizen nor a lawyer. My understanding of the US Constitution and the separation of church and state comes from reading loads of articles about it. As I said, the subject of freedom of religion for all and not just those who have one is something I am very interested in.

Originally Posted by cowboy

Church and state came all the way from the 14th century. What it means is the state can not tell you how you can worship. The dollar still says in god we can trust.

"In God We Trust" has only been the US national motto since 1956, and it is not entirely undisputed, as many people see it as an official endorsement of religion by the government.

Originally Posted by cowboy

The 2 people that took down that prayer interfered with the civil rights of many.

The people who put up the prayer and allowed it to stay there also interfered with the civil rights of many.

Originally Posted by cowboy

The judge was wrong with his decision and the school system does have the money to fight it. Your right, the US constitution gives you the right to believe how you believe. the ruling was a violation of the US constitution . bottom line .

If that's your opinion, I don't think we're going to agree on this.

Originally Posted by cowboy

But what I was saying is that with so much wrong in the world and so many needing help I thought it was a selfish act by these 2 women. Again my facts are not wrong.

I agree that there are many things wrong in the world. And indeed, this is just a minor issue in the great scheme of things.

But you said "We got here because people stopped caring about other people and only care about their beliefs and what they want." In light of that statement, I believe that this prayer banner thing is a bad example: Jessica Ahlquist stood up for what she believed in, the constitution, and was responsible for herself and other people. The schoolboard didn't care that she and others felt "excluded, ostracized and devalued." They just wanted to keep a statement of their beliefs up there. They even went to court over it. I don't get how she's what's wrong with the world.

Also, I tried my best to keep this out of the whole thing, since it seems kind of pedantic, but well, it was a girl and her father. While, indeed, that's nitpicking, it's still wrong.

Originally Posted by cowboy

I will stand up to any judge anywhere and argue the case. The reason the pilgrims left England is they were not allowed worship the way they wanted.

Yes, and that's also why the establishment clause is there: they didn't want state-endorsed religion, and religious freedom for all.

Originally Posted by cowboy

The law is not about a prayer on a school wall , it's about everyone in that school has a right to believe how they believe, can't say Merry Christmas, can't put the 10 commandments on the outside wall of the capitol building.

As far as I can see, in the US individuals are free to worship as they please and free to say merry christmas. But indeed, the government and, by extension, public schools cannot display messages promoting religion.

Originally Posted by cowboy

all people want to do is assume and not really read ,study, and understand.

That's a bit of a generalization. If I didn't try to understand this situation, I would not be arguing over this, would I?

Originally Posted by cowboy

Why does the President attend a prayer breakfest. I see dumb people !!

I wonder about that too, Obama being the anti-christ and all. I kid, I kid.

Originally Posted by cowboy

If they put a Muslim prayer next to the prayer that was on the wall for 50 years , I would say they have the right to do so.

I would love to see that. But mostly because I would also love to see the Religious Right fuming over that.

Originally Posted by cowboy

Separation of church and state is about the freedom to worship and believe what you heart tells you. Not to take away everything that says God From the world.

Again, I don't see how anyone in this case is trying to take away anybody's freedom of religion. Putting up a prayer is as far as I know not a prerequisite for religious worship.

Originally Posted by cowboy

If this case would have gone to the Supreme Court it would have been overturned.

Somehow, I doubt it would:

Originally Posted by U.S. Supreme Court ruling, Santa Fe v. Doe, (2000)

School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible because it sends the ancillary message to members of the audience who are nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.

I cannot see how allowing a prayer up on a wall and going to court over it is anything but sponsorship of the message.

Originally Posted by cowboy

You are basing your opinion on Wikipedia . Wikipedia ??

No, I am not. As I have said in several posts in this discussion that I believe the Wikipedia article to be a accurate, succinct summary of the many articles I've read on the case. In fact, I've also replied to exactly the same criticism that everybody should feel free to peruse the cited references at their leisure. And then, I also linked directly to in the court's decision. So, please, gimme a break.

Originally Posted by cowboy

Please go take a course in Constitutional law. I did in college, I was a History major . People are destroying the US Constitution . There are prayers all over the walls of government buildings in Washington. They won't go after those. They would be overturned.

There have been various lawsuits over, for example, displays of the ten commandments in state capitols and courthouses, with mixed outcome.



On a final note: I guess this all boils down to how you look at things. As an atheist, I think that freedom of church and state is a right that's worth defending. I'm perfectly fine with anybody believing and worshipping whatever they want, as long as they respect my right not to. For me, freedom of religion should also include freedom from religion. I don't see a war on religion, I see misplaced outrage over religious privileges being challenged. I see people sending sixteen year-old girls sending death threats because she stood up for what she believed in, and it just happened to go against what they believed in.

Meat, I don't think we're going to agree on this matter, but just as you're free to assert that Jessica Ahlquist, her father and the judge got it wrong and should be doing something more constructive, so am I free to believe you're barking up the wrong tree here.

(And that's probably not going to earn me a lot of likes, but so be it.)

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by cowboy

I'm glad you all like Paul, everytime I say anything it's wrong !! Please change to Paul Crook UK fan Club, and no I am not upset with Paul in any way. There are people here who do not like me at all. I am very confussed. " Meat Loaf UK Fan Club" is that a joke I'm not in on.

I like you and I've loved seeing you around the boards and reading what you have to say. I know the majority of the community feels the same.

I understand that negativity hurts and it's hard to ignore sometimes but there's a lot of messages that are very positive and supportive.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by kkzag

Does being "Evil" feel good???

Being kind and compassionate feels EVEN BETTER! You should try it sometime.

I hope that's not directed at me, 'cause it's just my nickname that's evil.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by cowboy

You are basing your opinion on Wikipedia . Wikipedia ?? Please go take a course in Constitutional law. I did in college, I was a History major . People are destroying the US Constitution . There are prayers all over the walls of government buildings in Washington. They won't go after those. They would be overturned.

Also, could the people liking this post please explain what part they liked? If it's Meat's assumption that I just used Wikipedia to base my opinion on: you're all dead wrong and didn't read the thread. -1, unlike, and unfollow.

[CarylB]

Getting back ...

As an atheist, I think that freedom of church and state is a right that's worth defending. I'm perfectly fine with anybody believing and worshipping whatever they want, as long as they respect my right not to. For me, freedom of religion should also include freedom from religion. I don't see a war on religion, I see misplaced outrage over religious privileges being challenged. I see people sending sixteen year-old girls sending death threats because she stood up for what she believed in, and it just happened to go against what they believed in.

People's beliefs, when they are core beliefs, are very strongly held, whether they are to believe in some power beyond this life or not to. Challenging them will always be an emotive issue. Of course it's wrong to send death threats to ANYone .. just as it's wrong to issue religious fatois that declare holy war. That's why I believe that to include rather than ban or prohibit a wide variety of religious beliefs as well as secular is better than fighting to remove something from a school wall that has been there for years.

Freedom to practise what one believes, just as the much quoted freedom to express an opinion are both worthy ideals in a democracy, but not easy to uphold. To insist on the removal of something which does not incite hatred to anyone, but is simply intended to inspire some to positive effort was not in my view the way to uphold freedom, simply because a wholly positive message was prefaced with 3 words "Our Heavenly Father".

To me to insist on its removal does impinge on the freedom of those who believe in God. But I would have no quarrel with similar prayers being also posted on the wall which were addressed to Allah, or appealed to any other belief, including one which was an exhortation to try ones best because one was human, had no belief in an afterlife or presence that watches over us, so it was important to make the best of each day one had on earth, because we each have a lifespan and it's important to make the best of it because it won't come again. To me that would uphold everyone's freedom to practise whatever belief they hold. Seeking to prevent this would be a breach of rights imo

Caryl

[melon]

Originally Posted by evil nickname

Also, could the people liking this post please explain what part they liked? If it's Meat's assumption that I just used Wikipedia to base my opinion on: you're all dead wrong and didn't read the thread. -1, unlike, and unfollow.

Because Wikepedia is about as reliable as... well, a Land Rover Discovery.... well at least the one that we used to have at my work anyway, that thing was crap.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by evil nickname

Also, could the people liking this post please explain what part they liked? If it's Meat's assumption that I just used Wikipedia to base my opinion on: you're all dead wrong and didn't read the thread. -1, unlike, and unfollow.

I read the thread very carefully. I "liked" ie agreed with "There are prayers all over the walls of government buildings in Washington. They won't go after those. They would be overturned."

I believe Meat is correct. The colonisation of America was based on a desire to practise religion without hindrance, it is embedded in the roots of its constitutional history. Every dollar bill has In God We Trust. Some things will endure in my view.

Caryl

[LisaT]

Originally Posted by robgomm

I think that's a bit harsh to be honest. I think if you look back the vast majority of the time everyone has been grateful for your posts and information and have said so, we all love you and want you here.

I agree that there are some people here that shouldn't be, and we would love to get rid of them believe you me. But please, please stick around for the vast majority of us who love and support you.

Absolutely! Meat, if you compare the number of people on here who are in your corner, it FAR OUTWEIGHS the number of people who are not! I guess most of us have a tendancy to focus more on the negative things that people say about us, rather than the positive. But Meat, the nit-pickers are the minority here. The majority of the people here think you are great and we really appreciate it when you come here and interact with us.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by CarylB

To me to insist on its removal does impinge on the freedom of those who believe in God.

To me, it doesn't. Being free to believe in something and being free to make a public display of what you believe are two different things altogether. Especially if you're not a private individual but a public school.

Originally Posted by CarylB

I read the thread very carefully. I "liked" ie agreed with "There are prayers all over the walls of government buildings in Washington. They won't go after those. They would be overturned."

Yet, you liked the whole post. Which goes to show that the "like" button does not really help clear communication.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by evil nickname

To me, it doesn't. Being free to believe in something and being free to make a public display of what you believe are two different things altogether. Especially if you're not a private individual but a public school.

We disagree. Life is never dull. But I understood it was permissable to publicly state or display one's opinions and beliefs, to practise one's beliefs publicly without let or hindrance as long as they don't incite hatred of another, and to do this both as an individual or a group. However, I think we see things differently, so need to each accept that having stated our view we might as well move on.

Yet, you liked the whole post. Which goes to show that the "like" button does not really help clear communication.

I didn't dislike any of it. I understood all of it, basically I agreed, and very strongly with what I quoted. It mattered to you to know more detail, you asked, I gave it to you.

My reaction you may recall re Wiki was the same. You have since pointed out you have done much research. However, I still think Meat probably understands more about the US constitution than you do. That's what I think .. so I agree with the post I liked.

Caryl

[shell120978]

Originally Posted by Skybird14

I like you and I've loved seeing you around the boards and reading what you have to say. I know the majority of the community feels the same.

I understand that negativity hurts and it's hard to ignore sometimes but there's a lot of messages that are very positive and supportive.

Well said!

I have tried not to get sucked into anything 'argumentative' which has happened in this forum (being only a baby poster), but have never seen anything like it before on any fan pages. But goodness, one man's words have been taken way, way, way out of context and scrutinised far too much. Can we just get the thread back on track and just enjoy our favourite music together and be chuffed that he wants to actually communicate with his fans? There are so many more artists that do not bother!

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by stretch37

And Sarge, I apologize for swearing at you the other day. [...] You didn't deserve what I said, and I although I'm still mad that you told me I'm forcing my opinion down others throats, I have felt bad since then. [...] Again, I apologize, and I feel bad, and I am sorry you felt I was too forceful. I'm currently in a really hard practicum at school, working, and was dirt poor for the last 3 weeks waiting for student loans. The stress got the best of me, and humbled me just as much.

Please don't feel bad. This forum shouldn't be a place to make one feel bad. Let's just bury the hatchet and focus on our common interest. Written communication is especially prone to misunderstandings. I understand the stress thing and I know you can be very passionate at times. Good luck with the practicum!

Originally Posted by robgomm

I agree that there are some people here that shouldn't be, and we would love to get rid of them believe you me.

Can we finally stop this, please? Who defines who should and who shouldn't be here and why and how to get rid of them? Good Lord*, some posts on this forum remind me of Communist Germany. Robgomm, you're obviously a smart person, I think you're not in need of that. You can show what a loyal and supportive fan you are without referring to other people's alleged shortcomings and without provoking conflicts within the community, can't you?

It's probably a very stupid, naive question to ask but can't we all just try to get along, in spite of having different opinions and different ways of expressing them? After all we're adult, reasonable people. (At least I hope so.)

* religious reference

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

There are lots of things that are traditions. I never understood the mentality that just because something is old means that it's better. There were lots of things that were traditions and than we outgrew them as human beings.

True, if we'd stick to things just because they have been there for quite a while there would be no progress at all. We still might have things like slavery or deny women the right to vote.

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Love you for your music, not always for your opinion. Just because of that doesn't mean the love isn't there.

Exactly. I often disagree with my best friends and they disagree with me, yet none of them has ever accused me of "not liking" them. We all have different backgrounds, experience of life, careers, opinions... I can enjoy some old movie with Brigitte Bardot, even though her political beliefs are not my cup of tea.

Originally Posted by cowboy

Church and state came all the way from the 14th century.

In America, too? Before Columbus?

I agree that Christianity has significantly influenced our culture over the centuries, regarding everything else I rather agree with evil nickname.

Originally Posted by cowboy

Your right, the US constitution
gives you the right to believe how you believe. the ruling was a violation of the US constitution . bottom line .

We had a similar arguments over here, regarding whether there must be crucifixes in classrooms or whether female Muslim teachers should be allowed to wear headscarfs while teaching. Or if pork must be served in school cafeterias... Freedom of religion and separation of church and state are sensitive issues and trigger differing points of view and interpretations. The problem is that things that some people consider to be an essential part of their religion / their beliefs / their culture might make others who believe in something else feel restricted or even offended.

Originally Posted by cowboy

There are prayers all over the walls of government buildings in Washington.

You can still find relics of doctrines represented by past eras on the walls of buildings in my country. They haven't been removed but we no longer have to live by them.

Removing a prayer from a school wall does not keep people from excercising their religion. They can still believe in whatever they want, they can pray, go to church, etc. If I want to be religious and believe in something, I can do so without a prayer hanging on a wall in a building that wasn't built to represent my religion. Unless it's a religious school, there shouldn't be prayers on display. As far as I understood, Ms. Ahlquist did not attack Christians or Christianity, the case just raises the question in which places religion should be present and if/where people who have another or no religion should be confronted with it that way. Are you "compassionate" enough not only to understand the feelings of those who wanted to keep the prayer but also the motivation of those who had an issue with it?

Originally Posted by evil nickname

As it is on a subject that I care about — i.e., freedom of religion for all, not just for those who happen to have one [...]

I don't see how she is what's wrong with the world.

Go yell at the people sending her death threats, or something.

Meat, you repeatedly complained about the rude, inconsiderate and dastard way people behave on the internet, didn't you? Does that also go for the issue evil nickname referred to in the sentence quoted above?

It's odd that some people who claim to be in favor of that prayer actually act against to what that prayer says. I wonder if they actually read and understood it. You say "we have lost our humanity and compassion". Is sending people hatemail "humane" or "compassionate"? What's worse? Requesting the removal of a prayer and maybe hurt people's (religious) feelings or threaten to actually hurt or kill someone?

If people have an issue with what the girl did, fine, but there are more decent and appropriate ways to express discontent. The way some people reacted just led to another silly Christians vs. atheists fight. That's one of the things I'd pick as an example for "the world going to hell in a handbasket": The inability of people to solve conflicts in a civilized manner, the tendency to hate each other for secondary, minor reasons.

Originally Posted by cowboy

But what I was saying is that with so much wrong in the world and so many needing help I thought it was a selfish act by these 2 women.

Everybody can decide for themselves what cause they fight for, regardless of what others think of it. Do you know for sure that she hasn't put time and energy in other issues, too? By the way, most of the things people do are somehow "selfish", even things we believe to be altruistic.

So, aside from the girl from Rhode Island that bothers you that much, what else is it that's "wrong in the world", in your opinion? You focus on some argument over a prayer when explaining the album title. What about the very complex economic and social issues the world suffers from? The latter will affect our lives in the long run, the prayer argument probably won't. It's easy but unfortunately not very constructive to complain about what other people have allegedly done wrong. I'm more interested in what you think is the "right" thing to do. What's your idea of solving the world's problems, how would you make the world a better place?

Just like to add one thing: I wonder why presumably reasonable people freak out when it comes to religion or politics and fight with people they could actually be good friends with if those two things wouldn't interfere.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by Sarge

It's probably a very stupid, naive question to ask but can't we all just try to get along, in spite of having different opinions and different ways of expressing them? After all we're adult, reasonable people. (At least I hope so.)

Very well said and a question I have been asking myself countless times during my life. I remember saying something to a girl I worked with once and that was that everyone has an opinion but differing opinions does not have to stop people being friends or at least getting along.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by cowboy

I'm glad you all like Paul, everytime I say anything it's wrong !! Please change to Paul Crook UK fan Club, and no I am not upset with Paul in any way. There are people here who do not like me at all. I am very confussed. " Meat Loaf UK Fan Club" is that a joke I'm not in on.

There is so much love to be found here but for some reason you ONLY seem to pick out everything you dislike.

What Paul brought to this board was an insight on the production of a Meat Loaf album. Of course we love that!

I saw questions in Paul's 'production' topic about if you were willing to do something similar. Like the Facebook/YouTube Q&A. As far as I can remember that only got positive vibes on this forum!

People agree with and love you on most matters. On some matters they have different views or opinions. So what? Why fixate on what we don't agree on? Instead of fighting those opinions try to take a compliment from the board every now and then. I hardly see you reply to positive posts. Maybe you should do that a bit more and perhaps it gives you a better feeling coming here.

[Nici]

Originally Posted by cowboy

I'm glad you all like Paul, everytime I say anything it's wrong !! Please change to Paul Crook UK fan Club, and no I am not upset with Paul in any way. There are people here who do not like me at all. I am very confussed. " Meat Loaf UK Fan Club" is that a joke I'm not in on.

I don't post often. Mainly I only read. But there are à lot off people who like you and like your music Mr. Loaf. You need to start to believe that. There are more people on here than you think who feel that way. Maybe they are not very outspoken but they are there.....

Try to stay positive!!!!!!

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Can we finally stop this, please? Who defines who should and who shouldn't be here and why and how to get rid of them? Good Lord*, some posts on this forum remind me of Communist Germany. Robgomm, you're obviously a smart person, I think you're not in need of that. You can show what a loyal and supportive fan you are without referring to other people's alleged shortcomings and without provoking conflicts within the community, can't you?

It's probably a very stupid, naive question to ask but can't we all just try to get along, in spite of having different opinions and different ways of expressing them? After all we're adult, reasonable people. (At least I hope so.)

* religious reference

I'm sorry if I offended you Sarge but there is an important point to make here. It just seems to me that there are fans of Meats music here, and fans of Meat the person as well as the music. This is the problem. There are a small group of people who do not seem to like Meat Loaf the person, and because of this they end up posting negative things an awful lot of the time that then cause arguments and bad feeling on the board.

I really appreciate you saying we should all try to get along. I'm with you 100% on that. I just can't see it happening while some people are here.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Every dollar bill has In God We Trust. Some things will endure in my view.

Caryl

I will point out that 'In God We Trust' was put on the notes in the 50s as a reaction to the cold war.

I will also point out that the UK puts great men like Charles Darwin on their money. I'm surprised to have so many people on a UK forum NOT defending secular values.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by robgomm

I'm sorry if I offended you Sarge but there is an important point to make here. It just seems to me that there are fans of Meats music here, and fans of Meat the person as well as the music. This is the problem. There are a small group of people who do not seem to like Meat Loaf the person, and because of this they end up posting negative things an awful lot of the time that then cause arguments and bad feeling on the board.

I really appreciate you saying we should all try to get along. I'm with you 100% on that. I just can't see it happening while some people are here.

It's not a problem. It's the Internet.

Do you think that everyone is just gonna agree on everything? It's not gonna happen. Never.

And why WOULD somebody want that? Sounds boring to me.

Disagreements are not hate or negativity. People need to realize that and stop making leaps in judgement. Including Meat himself.

I'm sure most people who are fans of his music, but disagree on some of his views are still fans of ML the person. He's not a bad person, just wrong (IMO) sometimes.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by robgomm

There are a small group of people who do not seem to like Meat Loaf the person, and because of this they end up posting negative things an awful lot of the time that then cause arguments and bad feeling on the board.

The fact that someone disagrees with something Meat Loaf says or does, does not necessarily mean that they dislike him. Sometimes people are pretty quick with the "hate" accusation, maybe that's easier than trying to understand why someone posted a "negative" comment.

Fans like their favorite artists for various reasons. We're all different from each other and have our own preferences, expectations and values. It's not unusual that there are different levels of admiration and different ways to show that admiration.

P.S.: Let me also point to the fact that this is an international community. There are people whose mother tongue is not English which might lead to misunderstanding or posts appearing a tad too "blunt".

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I'm sure most people who are fans of his music, but disagree on some of his views are still fans of ML the person. He's not a bad person, just wrong (IMO) sometimes.

It's not that he's wrong... so to speak ... just that his opinion may differ from yours ... Imo ... lol ... opinions can't really be called wrong ... It's just the way one feels... ie... one person thinking one flavor of ice cream is better than another... That doesn't make it so ... It's just an opinion ...

S ... xo

[The Flying Mouse]

A lot of strong feeling about this

I feel (although I might be wrong) the problem Meat has with so much effort going into the removal of the prayer is not a religious issue, but one that there is a portion of society that really goes out of their way to upset other people.

The prayer was on the wall for 50 years.
Had it hurt anyone in 50 years?
Was it due to hurt anyone in the next 50 years?

So what was the big problem?

It might have brought comfort to some people, so it did a little good in the world, but who the hell was it going to harm?
If there were a lot more things that could do some good but no harm, we'd be living in a better world.

If there was something in the prayer that insighted racial or religeous hatred toward others, I can see the point in wanting it taking down. But a message of reasurrance?

Why couldn't the prayer be ignored by the people who didn't believe in it?

Why is another persons views (in this case, religious beliefs) be such an affront to people with different views? (perhaps they are all forum users )

That's the message I got from Meat frustration, but again, maybe i'm wrong


I myself am offended when things like Christmas are deemed politicaly incorrect. There have been plenty of reports in newspapers over the years over different places in England that have decided to ban a public Christmas tree in case it offends other religions or non believers.
I do not feel intimidated by Chritianity, I don't feel my human rights violated, and have no problem with the national anthem being GOD Save The Queen.
In fact I rather envy people who have stronger religious beliefs at times as I can imagine them to be of comfort at times.

I'm not a particularly religious person, but Chritianity is the religion of my land, and I believe that those who wish to worship should be given that right.
If other religions wish to practice in my country, all fair and good, but don't go saying that Christianity offends you.

And you don't have to be a dyed in the wool God wholloper to think a tree with pretty lights on sort of brightens the place up a bit.
(The fact that the "Christmas" tree was hijacked off the pagans and actually has ~~~~~~ all to do with the son of God is something I supports that viewpoint )



But is this the place to discuss this?
Yes, and no.

Yes, because it was said by Meat, and we are all fans of Meat and might have an opinion on what he has to say. Wether that be positive or negative.

No, because it has nothing to do with his career.

Ultimatly, if somebody well known takes a public stance on an issue it is more than likely that there will be people who agree and people who disagree, and as we all have a differnent compass governing our political/religious/social views, it's not to be too surprising when it's discovered that some of the people who disagree are within his own fan base.
In fact, you can pretty much count on it. If a dude from Westlife says something about politics or religion it's not likely to interest me. From Meat I might take more interest.

If you admire JFK, you probably admire him for his political views, but you might not like his art collection.

If you admire The Pope it's probably because you think he's a righteous dude, but looking through his CD rack you might wonder "WTF is he thinking?"

I think the people of this forum are here because they appreciate the artistic output of the artist Meat Loaf.
Not because they hold the same religious/political beliefs, so when Meat says something publicly they don't agree with, it's bound to cause debate.

So Meat doesn't respect the peoples efforts to have the prayer taken down, some people don't respect Meat's comments on the issue, other people don't respect their disagreement with Meat, and so the world keeps going around and around.


I believe Meat is over the top with this...............

Originally Posted by cowboy

I'm glad you all like Paul, everytime I say anything it's wrong !! Please change to Paul Crook UK fan Club, and no I am not upset with Paul in any way. There are people here who do not like me at all. I am very confussed. " Meat Loaf UK Fan Club" is that a joke I'm not in on.

He's said things like this a lot, and I for one thing it's very unfair.
Most of the posts on this forum are positive (as you'd expect on a fan forum).
There have been pleas not to leave the forum, posts of love and devotion, some have posted supporting your stance (with giving reasons why) and I think they are the most supportive posts of all.

But to reply to a whole forum that you are not liked because somebody holds an opinion different to your own concerning a freaking prayer on a wall is (and I say this with all the love in the world, even though the "dislikes" are going to go through the roof) as silly and one minded as the people who made such a fuss about taking down a prayer they didn't happen to agree with.

Meat, I love you a lot, but look at the support you have on the forum, and for God's sake stop thinking that just because someone disagrees with a public stance you take means they hate you.