New BOOH Not A Sequal, A Continuation

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by stretch37

seriously can we stop picking on nikox please? I am happy to just see him posting again, nothing was said by him that should have upset anyone. BostonAngel, why did you even dislike his post? Seriously, this has gone far enough.

This thread was started to talk about, and I quote:
"The purpose of this thread was not to stir up... whatever this is but to have a discussion on what would Bat Out Of Hell be like if they made a continuation of it, kind of like in the James Bond universe how Quantum of Solace continued Casino Royals story."

I entered the discussion when the content of Bat 2 was dismissed as weak. I don't know why the title of Bat anything for Brave and Crazy had to be introduced, nor anything which resulted in more posts about Bat 3 not being a Bat album. Meat going ahead without Jim etc etc.

I thought that was a pity, and still do. I will agree or disagree with any post I choose Matt. And I think it is for the Mods to decide if anyone is being picked on or not, and for individual members to decide whether they like or dislike posts. I don't feel the need to explain why I have agreed or disagreed with any post twice.

[nikox1]

It will be interesting to see if brave and crazy has a bat feel to it? Hoping its a big over the top record. Then again good old Meat may surprise us AGAIN

[nikox1]

@ stretch, thanks for the support!! Haha, but don't worry it's nothing I'm getting upset over, I posted nothing wrong, nor did I try and fan any flames etc etc,, bat 1,2,3 are on topic on this thread as far as I can see? I even mentioned brave and crazy aswell ( since jim is involved ) its got a kind of bat link to it, haha!!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by nikox1

It will be interesting to see if brave and crazy has a bat feel to it? Hoping its a big over the top record. Then again good old Meat may surprise us AGAIN

It's bound to have a Bat feel to it in parts I'd have thought with at least 3 Steinman songs, one of which Meat says will be over 14 minutes. On the other hand he has told us on the Brave & Crazy thread that it will have songs from James Michael and Rick Brantley, so as a whole I think it will be a Meat album, with welcomed and exciting contributions from Jim.

[wolfy35]

Originally Posted by CarylB

It's bound to have a Bat feel to it in parts I'd have thought with at least 3 Steinman songs, one of which Meat says will be over 14 minutes. On the other hand he has told us on the Brave & Crazy thread that it will have songs from James Michael and Rick Brantley, so as a whole I think it will be a Meat album, with welcomed and exciting contributions from Jim.

Don't forget that if I read it correctly on one of the other threads Meat has now said that Jim will be producing at least some tracks.

If Jim's health is good enough now to allow him to produce it does raise the prospects that we may see some brand new material from him and not as we were initially thinking existing tracks that were unreleased.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by wolfy35

If Jim's health is good enough now to allow him to produce it does raise the prospects that we may see some brand new material from him and not as we were initially thinking existing tracks that were unreleased.

Producing no longer has to be weeks spent in a studio though, does it? I'd imagine that the 14+ minute one may well be something fresh, and never bought into the idea that all would be ones we'd seen demo'd. However, I think with other composers involved, which Meat has also confirmed, this isn't likely to be a Bat album as such .. given the controversy over the last one which included other writers .. but will have a Bat/Steinman feel in parts and a Meat feel throughout

[nikox1]

14 minute song sounds interesting indeed. It's great that jim of course will be writing songs for the album, but I'm Also really interested to hear the non steinman songs, some other great writers involved.

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by CarylB

This thread was started to talk about, and I quote:
"The purpose of this thread was not to stir up... whatever this is but to have a discussion on what would Bat Out Of Hell be like if they made a continuation of it, kind of like in the James Bond universe how Quantum of Solace continued Casino Royals story."

This is the "off topic" section. And while I find Bat 3 to be extremely relevant to the discussion just on the fact alone that Jim songs were used on Bat3 without his actual involvement and this time he is involved. Plus it was officially titled "Bat Out Of Hell III" and the thread is about "continuation" of Bat. So is "Bat 3" part of the progression of the series sadly??
Regardless this is in the "off topic" section so what the initial post said is irrelevant IMO.

[misterfive]

Ok what I am saying is, I would like the next bat album not to be a sequel (if there is a new bat album) but something that is a continuation of BOOH. Like if you play BOOH and then play that one its like listening to the same album only on the b-side. And if that is the case I would like to hear what would happen if Bat Out Of Hell the song got a direct continuation.

[The Flying Mouse]

Am I the only one still pondering the question what's the difference between a sequal and a continuation?

Star Wars was a film, then they made Empire Strikes Back, which was a sequel, right?
But it continues the story from where the first one left off.
So does that make it a sequal or a continuation?

And how can you do a musical continuation if there is no story arc to the album?
You can't continue a story if you haven't begun to start to tell it.

This thread puzzles me

[wolfy35]

Originally Posted by misterfive

Ok what I am saying is, I would like the next bat album not to be a sequel (if there is a new bat album) but something that is a continuation of BOOH. Like if you play BOOH and then play that one its like listening to the same album only on the b-side. And if that is the case I would like to hear what would happen if Bat Out Of Hell the song got a direct continuation.

Eh?

I find your line of thought at best vague, at worst confusing. You seem to have decided that there is going to BE a next Bat album. Both Meat & Jim have said in interviews that Bat was always envisioned as a trilogy.

I think you are hearing the news that Meat & Jim are working together again and have convinced yourself that this means it will be another Bat. Why can you not just be happy that a partnership that has given us IMHO some of the best tracks ever recorded are working together again?

[misterfive]

Originally Posted by wolfy35

Eh?

Ok, if you watch Star Wars the movies aren't really a sequel cause they continue the same narrative and saga. As in lets say Ghostbusters 1 and 2, both issues are resolved by the end of either films.

Another example which is used before is like James Bond films how they all continue and end in one film and may have some connections but its just a long line of sequels. Except for Casino Royale and Quantom of Solace cause the narrative continues on. So what I suggest instead of a sequel with a row of great songs, songs that follow the same themes and ideals of the first BOOH album as if to continue it.

[Evil One]

So you want an old man singing about teenage love?

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by misterfive

Ok, if you watch Star Wars the movies aren't really a sequel cause they continue the same narrative and saga. As in lets say Ghostbusters 1 and 2, both issues are resolved by the end of either films.

If Empire Strikes Back had never been made, Star Wars could have stood alone as it's own self enclosed film. In fact, it did for several years

Same with The Godfather.

On the other hand, there are plenty of films that don't end with a water tight ending with no story left to tell. The Talented Mr Ripley springs to mind. There could very well have been a sequel there to carry on the story.

Again, there is no story arc to the Bat Out Of Hell album, so how can the story be continued?

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Evil One

So you want an old man singing about teenage love?

How about a prequel?

[wolfy35]

Originally Posted by misterfive

Ok, if you watch Star Wars the movies aren't really a sequel cause they continue the same narrative and saga. As in lets say Ghostbusters 1 and 2, both issues are resolved by the end of either films.

Another example which is used before is like James Bond films how they all continue and end in one film and may have some connections but its just a long line of sequels. Except for Casino Royale and Quantom of Solace cause the narrative continues on. So what I suggest instead of a sequel with a row of great songs, songs that follow the same themes and ideals of the first BOOH album as if to continue it.

Think its time you stopped digging yourself further into your hole yet?

As Mouse has correctly pointed out now none of the Bat albums had any form of story arc or concept behind them so you can not make a sequel, prequel or continuation to them. Each album is a standalone collection of unconnected songs unlike WTTN or HCTB that did have some form of rudimentary concept behind them.

With this in mind I counteract your proposal of updating/revamping a timeless album that is BOOH with a suggestion that we re make the collected works of the Beatles in the style of a German oompah band complete with accordians

To support this proposal I submit Weird Al, Bohemian Polka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcEhSOLUPY

[nikox1]

It is getting all confusing indeed, I can see it from all points of view, I get mister fives angle sort of?? Haha, but I can also see it from the other side I think?? I don't know!! Haha, but I would like to point out mister five came on here months ago and told us jim and meat would work together again, even before meat confirmed it. And there is no shit stirring in what I say next - I was told by a friend who works in a certain label that the record company asked it to be called something else....... Not brave and crazy. But since meat has told us it will be brave and crazy, so be it I guess. It would be interesting if jim did hand over more songs than 3, would that change the direction? Anyway exciting times ahead

[misterfive]

BOOH was supposed to be an opera and Meat has noted to say that it had a narrative. What I am saying is BOOH instead of BOOH 2 which was about the past and memories, and BOOH 3 was supposed to be personal demons, BOOH like others stated here was about Teenage Love.

So what I want instead of BOOH 4 or whatever, to be a continuation of the first BOOH. Maybe the first song that happens after Bat Out Of Hell (the song) and everything falling into place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=far0a3d1fMA

At 7:50 Jim says what BOOH is in a nut shell.
Like Jim says Rock n Roll contains, fever, fantasies that go into Rock N Roll mythology, violent romance, violence that is heroic that becomes romantic.

That is what I want with BOOH album, a continuation of that power that teenage rebellion that fantasy.

I hate when people call BOOH a trilogy. Cause Bat 2 and 3 didn't have that same dark fantasy rock and roll mythology that began there and I find that to be a tad disturbing that none of you get that.

[duke knooby]

Originally Posted by wolfy35

Both Meat & Jim have said in interviews that Bat was always envisioned as a trilogy.

they did?

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by nikox1

It is getting all confusing indeed

Mainly I think because someone is moving for a discussion on what he'd like to see as some potential Bat album in a sequence, and the new album, happening, is getting into the discussion. The latter is an album for which Meat has some songs already, will also have some songs from Steinman, about which we know little, and will have songs from at least two other writers .. so is unlikely to deliver this potential Bat in sequence misterfive wants to see.

I was told by a friend who works in a certain label that the record company asked it to be called something else....... Not brave and crazy. But since meat has told us it will be brave and crazy, so be it I guess. It would be interesting if jim did hand over more songs than 3, would that change the direction?

Who knows? But if Meat already has two other writers involved, and said he hopes to prise one more than 3 out of Jim, I'd say, probably not .. certainly not in terms of it delivering an album everyone would consider a Bat album. As to your friend's information (passed on not in confidence which I'd have his garters for were I his manager) .. Meat was persuaded before over a title, but has said very clearly that he won't be again.

Originally Posted by misterfive

BOOH was supposed to be an opera and Meat has noted to say that it had a narrative. What I am saying is BOOH instead of BOOH 2 which was about the past and memories, and BOOH 3 was supposed to be personal demons, BOOH like others stated here was about Teenage Love.

I'll give you a tendancy towards youthful angst in BOOH and more mature reflection in Bat 2 .. but Bat 2 wasn't to me exclusively memories .. AFL was set in the present, as was Frying Pan, Life is a Lemon and It Just Won't Quit .. and FCOL was a very mature love song, while Paradise was a reflection back, remembering youth and ending with today's disaster, just as examples

So what I want instead of BOOH 4 or whatever, to be a continuation of the first BOOH. Maybe the first song that happens after Bat Out Of Hell (the song) and everything falling into place.

Less likely to happen in my view. You'd be talking something that wouldn't be released this side of 2016, even if Jim were to be able to come up with the number of songs required in the time (he is said to have several other projects in hand).

I hate when people call BOOH a trilogy. Cause Bat 2 and 3 didn't have that same dark fantasy rock and roll mythology that began there and I find that to be a tad disturbing that none of you get that.

I understand what you want, I just don't agree with the basic premise you're hanging your hat on. To me there's nothing significantly dark fantasy rock and roll mythology about for eg Heaven Can Wait, You Took the Words, or FCOL on BOOH as examples .. nearly half the album. Bat 2 delivered some very powerful, Steinman penned, big rock and roll tracks, in the style of much of BOOH. Bat 3 had Land of the Pig (pretty dark to me)

Bat 3 WAS Bat 3 to me, so I consider them a trilogy, at risk of disturbing you further That it wasn't exclusively Steinman songs didn't disturb me personally; I'm a Meat fan. And despite the fact that it was unfortunately not a happy experience for Meat, it delivered an album I loved and still do.

[Jules13]

Originally Posted by tonyloaf

Adje dressed up like a recycle bin .... :)

That's probably my fault... :)

It looks like we won't get a consensus in this discussion. So we also should accept the other opinions. Please, be nice to each other.
"An act of kindness..." It starts at that point.

Bat3, Bat4, Bat5, Brave and Crazy... I mean, there are Bat1 and Bat2 and the other albums are great as well. We all like the albums if the songs are from Jim or not... I am excited for the new album however it is called.

[TheDoode]

I'm sure that all misterfive was saying was 'what if' another BOOH album was to be like they'd just left the tape running after the original recordings and all those original songs continued (i.e. after the fade out/cut off/etc.)

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

I'm sure that all misterfive was saying was 'what if' another BOOH album was to be like they'd just left the tape running after the original recordings and all those original songs continued (i.e. after the fade out/cut off/etc.)

What a way with words you have!!! That's exactly it