Meat's 2015 plans?

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Indeed .. However, as others have judged the song on what is available as one they want Meat to record , it seems fair that I can say on the same evidence that I'm not that in that camp. And I was judging not just on the performance, but the music and the lyrics, neither of which engaged me greatly. My perspective.

I am not saying, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone here say, that Steinman hasn't got a track record of composing brilliant songs. No-one is denying his genius. However, imo others have written superb songs which Meat has recorded, have written superb songs which he hasn't. I may be alone in this view, but I don't think so. When Meat records an album it does not have to contain songs only composed by Steinman for me to look forward to it, nor for me to love it. I do not think I am alone in that either. For those to whom only a Steinman song will do, I am delighted for them that there will be 6 such on the next album. However, some of us love all Meat's work, and will look forward with as much excitement to hear ALL the songs as they will to their six :) Just as Meat will pour his soul into every track with equal commitment and passion. There will also be those who have not followed Meat from the start, who are younger, to whom perhaps his more recent work strikes a much closer chord.

That isn't anti-Steinman, none of it .. it's simply pro-Meat

Good comments. However the feeling I`ve noticed very little excitement about Steinman`s involvement on the record and that has probably alot to do with his lack of input into any of Meat`s past projects.
Meat has always wanted Jim to be involved and we can go on as much as we want about how great the last non Jim albums have been that Meat has made. A lot of very fair comments there for sure.
However, when Meat himself is clearly very happy and excited to have Jim involved on his next record, his fans should be too.
I definitely would not be surprised to see in the end it being a full Steinman composed album, as we started out with just two songs now we`re up to six. I remember how BAT 2 was finished and Jim add OBJECTS cause he said he wasn`t finished.
This is a pro Meat board and Meat is working with who he wants. Steinman.
In all the interviews he`s given so far that`s the only name I`ve heard.
With all respect to the other writers who will end up on the album

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Tina

Which other songs will have a chance to get on Brave and Crazy?

Braver Than We Are has been confirmed. Knowing the speed at which Jim works, it's highly unlikely he'll have written five brand new songs especially for this album.

From the aborted Batman musical there is:
Not Allowed To Love

YouTube Video

Still The Children

YouTube Video

I Need All The Love I Can Get

YouTube Video

Wonderful Toys

YouTube Video

Graveyard Shift

YouTube Video

There's also the songs from the Confidence Man musical, Tanz Der Vampire, Rhinegold and all the other musicals Jim wrote in the 60's and 70's. Whether some of that material is any good is open to debate.

And there is the part of Only When I Feel that isn't Break It.

YouTube Video

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Good comments. However the feeling I`ve noticed very little excitement about Steinman`s involvement on the record

I have nothing against Steinman, he has written wonderful songs in the rather distant past, but I have grown very fond of what Meat has brought to the table with his last 2 records. I like the new fresh material, versus old material that has probably been lying around for 15 years.

I look forward to a new Meat album because I know he will produce something that I will like, but I'm honestly looking more forward to the contributions from the likes of Rick Brantley and James Michael

Sent from my Moto X using Forum Runner

[AndrewG]

Graveyard Shift would be awesome.
Would love for Angels Arise to be attached though. The lyric "Looks like it's gonna be a dark one tonight." is just superb.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by MarkS

I like the new fresh material, versus old material that has probably been lying around for 15 years.

It has turned out a lot of songs Meat recorded for those so called fresh albums ended up being covers themselves which I was very surprised at.

In that light those Steinman songs lying around for 15 years will also be new for 98% of the listeners anyway.

[Breeze]

I really like " We're still the children". Sad to see Body won't be on album but looking forward to seeing the actual picks. I also agree that Meat has recorded some great non-Jim music too.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Breeze

I really like " We're still the children". Sad to see Body won't be on album but looking forward to seeing the actual picks. I also agree that Meat has recorded some great non-Jim music too.

I agree with all your comments and for me the weird thing is that most of the non Jim songs I like from Meat are the ones where I think the writers have tried to emulate his style (CHSIB / DIST / What about Love? / BAAB / Alive / ILFYATTT). I can appreciate many won't agree with that likeliness or the fact that trying to emulate his style is wrong and doomed to failure. To me it got to the stage where I prefer the non Jim songs on Bat 3 than the Jim songs simply because I thought the production and instrumentation choices were just not right for his songs (turning songs into duets, lack of piano based driving force and a massive lack of dynamic contrasts -even Brian May's guitar riffs couldn't save that which on paper I would never thought would have been possible).

So indeed "non Jim Meat" songs can definitely appeal to me!

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It has turned out a lot of songs Meat recorded for those so called fresh albums ended up being covers themselves which I was very surprised at.

In that light those Steinman songs lying around for 15 years will also be new for 98% of the listeners anyway.

Yes Mad, Mad World and California Dreamin' were indeed remakes of hit songs, but the rest of the albums were fresh, and the other songs never really got past the demo stage, so those don't really count as covers. Songs are recorded as examples for artist all the time, doesn't mean it isn't fresh material. 1/12 of the songs from the last 2 albums were "covers." seems like a pretty good ratio to me.

Bring on Brave and Crazy

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Hmm, if it is pro-Meat-ism, then it's coming across as being to the detriment of Jim Steinman's contribution. I'm no Steinman super-fan, but I'd argue that if you walked into a bar and asked someone to name five Meat Loaf songs, four of them would've been written by Jim. It definitely wouldn't include Peace on Earth, Did You Ever Love Somebody, and All of Me (as good as those songs are).

But those of us on this board are not just anyone in a bar are we? Those who have said they are looking forward to all the songs, who know and are looking forward to the songs from other writers, wouldn't necessarily identify 4 out of 5 as being written by Steinman (leaving aside the fact that those random people in the bar would probably not know who had written the songs, which at least we do, and give Jim credit).

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

However, when Meat himself is clearly very happy and excited to have Jim involved on his next record, his fans should be too.

I haven't seen any suggestions people aren't happy. I was responding to a comment about "a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism" .. and I do not see that equal pleasure that Meat is recording, or that he will have songs from other excellent writers is "anti-Steinman", either active or passive.

I definitely would not be surprised to see in the end it being a full Steinman composed album, as we started out with just two songs now we`re up to six. I remember how BAT 2 was finished and Jim add OBJECTS cause he said he wasn`t finished.

Personally I would be surprised. I am also looking froward to the songs from the other writers, I hope we will get 14 tracks. and were we to get 14 Steinman tracks I doubt I'd see the album early next year frankly .. and that would disappoint me

This is a pro Meat board and Meat is working with who he wants. Steinman.
In all the interviews he`s given so far that`s the only name I`ve heard.
With all respect to the other writers who will end up on the album

Actually I have heard him refer to other names .. but be that as it may, for I'm not going to try and track down in which interview that was, of course Meat is recording songs from writers he wants to work with .. Steinman of course, and that must delight him .. but also those others he has selected.

It's not obligatory to want only Steinman compositions on a new Meat album. I have said more than once I am delighted for Meat, and for those who seem to want only Steinman songs that they are getting more than was first anticipated. I will also say again it is NOT "anti-Steinman" to be looking forward to the songs from other respected writers. I have paid full respect to Steinman in my replies here .. principally because he deserves it, and also because Meat expects that of his fans. But I like the work of other writers as well. That is MY taste, and not anti anyone, not disrespectful of anyone's genius, and simply because I am a fan of Meat's work, across the board.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by MarkS

Yes Mad, Mad World and California Dreamin' were indeed remakes of hit songs, but the rest of the albums were fresh, and the other songs never really got past the demo stage, so those don't really count as covers. Songs are recorded as examples for artist all the time, doesn't mean it isn't fresh material.

Most of the songs on Hang Cool were already released before Meat sang them. If you have no issue with this then you should have no issue with him singing a couple of Steinman songs that have 'probably been lying around for 15 years.'

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by MarkS

I have nothing against Steinman, he has written wonderful songs in the rather distant past, but I have grown very fond of what Meat has brought to the table with his last 2 records. I like the new fresh material, versus old material that has probably been lying around for 15 years.

I look forward to a new Meat album because I know he will produce something that I will like, but I'm honestly looking more forward to the contributions from the likes of Rick Brantley and James Michael

Meat has said that Jim has written some new material, certainly lyrics.

But I strongly agree with your second paragraph; not to take anything away from Steinman's work, that there is something new and different in the work of Brantley and Michael that really appeal to me, and I struggle to see why this should be construed by anyone as some veiled criticism of Steinman. It's not. It's simply an appreciation of the work of other gifted songwriters.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by CarylB

But those of us on this board are not just anyone in a bar are we? Those who have said they are looking forward to all the songs, who know and are looking forward to the songs from other writers, wouldn't necessarily identify 4 out of 5 as being written by Steinman (leaving aside the fact that those random people in the bar would probably not know who had written the songs, which at least we do, and give Jim credit).



I haven't seen any suggestions people aren't happy. I was responding to a comment about "a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism" .. and I do not see that equal pleasure that Meat is recording, or that he will have songs from other excellent writers is "anti-Steinman", either active or passive.



Personally I would be surprised. I am also looking froward to the songs from the other writers, I hope we will get 14 tracks. and were we to get 14 Steinman tracks I doubt I'd see the album early next year frankly .. and that would disappoint me



Actually I have heard him refer to other names .. but be that as it may, for I'm not going to try and track down in which interview that was, of course Meat is recording songs from writers he wants to work with .. Steinman of course, and that must delight him .. but also those others he has selected.

It's not obligatory to want only Steinman compositions on a new Meat album. I have said more than once I am delighted for Meat, and for those who seem to want only Steinman songs that they are getting more than was first anticipated. I will also say again it is NOT "anti-Steinman" to be looking forward to the songs from other respected writers. I have paid full respect to Steinman in my replies here .. principally because he deserves it, and also because Meat expects that of his fans. But I like the work of other writers as well. That is MY taste, and not anti anyone, not disrespectful of anyone's genius, and simply because I am a fan of Meat's work, across the board.

My original comment, which you replied to, was regarding Meat's songs that the general music-listening public would recognise, hence my further reply. But I'm more than happy to take your word for the rest Caryl

Edit: though as for the latter half of your comment to Mark S above, I think you should review the tone of this thread if you're still in the dark about why some might find the tone kind of anti-Steinman.

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Most of the songs on Hang Cool were already released before Meat sang them. If you have no issue with this then you should have no issue with him singing a couple of Steinman songs that have 'probably been lying around for 15 years.'

Again, demos, don't count as releases. A few of the songs had iTunes EP releases in the United States, but not an actual physical release, but the rest of the world had likely never heard of them, actually I venture to say most in the US had never heard the demos until Meat named the songs that he was going to sing. So, by AndrewG's own logic, this would still be fresh material

And, if you had been assed to read my original post, I have no issue with Steinman material, I just prefer songs that aren't over 15 years old, which the vast majority of Steinman material is likely to be, sans a few new lines.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by MarkS

I have no issue with Steinman material, I just prefer songs that aren't over 15 years old, which the vast majority of Steinman material is likely to be, sans a few new lines.

Would it make a difference if it was 15 year old material that you'd never heard before? Because you what we call 15 year old material we've never heard before? New material.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by MarkS

Again, demos, don't count as releases. A few of the songs had iTunes EP releases in the United States, but not an actual physical release, but the rest of the world had likely never heard of them, actually I venture to say most in the US had never heard the demos until Meat named the songs that he was going to sing. So, by AndrewG's own logic, this would still be fresh material

Surely that is exactly the same for Steinman's mostly unheard demos/songs?

Originally Posted by MarkS

And, if you had been assed to read my original post, I have no issue with Steinman material, I just prefer songs that aren't over 15 years old, which the vast majority of Steinman material is likely to be, sans a few new lines.

I don't understand where that really comes from but each to their own. I could have heard Bat out of Hell today for the first time (sure with a more up to date say Rob Cavallo style production) and still thought it was the best song I've ever heard. In my opinion Steinman's songs are pretty much timeless, I'm sure they will last 100-200 years at least if not beyond. Most of his songs are like Mozart pieces, still impressive after time passes. When you start mentioning things like "cell" (mobile) and "Red Bull" in the lyrics that timelessness is somewhat lost in my opinion regardless what you achieve with production and instrumentation. Also the use of certain words kind of takes away from that timelessness feeling I always think. (Ass / the F word) etc.

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Surely that is exactly the same for Steinman's mostly unheard demos/songs?



I don't understand where that really comes from but each to their own. I could have heard Bat out of Hell today for the first time (sure with a more up to date say Rob Cavallo style production) and still thought it was the best song I've ever heard. In my opinion Steinman's songs are pretty much timeless, I'm sure they will last 100-200 years at least if not beyond. Most of his songs are like Mozart pieces, still impressive after time passes. When you start mentioning things like "cell" (mobile) and "Red Bull" in the lyrics that timelessness is somewhat lost in my opinion regardless what you achieve with production and instrumentation. Also the use of certain words kind of takes away from that timelessness feeling I always think. (Ass / the F word) etc.

That is part of my problem, most Steiman songs, which the exception of the major hits (BOH, AFL, Total Eclipse) aren't really all that timeless, most of the ones I have heard sound quite stale. Now I have heard that he is supposedly updating lyrics so we will have to see if that improves stuff at all. Songs have to evolve somewhat, and use the speech of the time in order to be somewhat relevant to a new and younger audience.

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Would it make a difference if it was 15 year old material that you'd never heard before? Because you what we call 15 year old material we've never heard before? New material.

Again, 15 year old material is going to sound like 15 year old material unless the lyrics are updated. Its usually pretty easy to hear a song and say that it wasn't written recently. And much of the Steinman stuff has been demoed or covered by someone along the way, so I'm guessing most of this stuff is coming from a box covered in dust in the back corner of a dank basement, and it is likely going to read that way.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by MarkS

Again, 15 year old material is going to sound like 15 year old material unless the lyrics are updated. Its usually pretty easy to hear a song and say that it wasn't written recently. And much of the Steinman stuff has been demoed or covered by someone along the way, so I'm guessing most of this stuff is coming from a box covered in dust in the back corner of a dank basement, and it is likely going to read that way.

A. We don't know that; it's complete speculation.

B. Actually, no, that's absolute twoddle. I'd give you a 'if you listen to the production you might be able to tell it's from 15 years ago', but unless Steinman's started dropping in references to shell suits and bum-bags I don't buy for one minute that you'd be able to date a song from the lyrics alone. Maybe you should write to him and suggest he drops in a few 'iPads' and 'twerks' so his songs'll have a more contemporary edge

[Evil One]

As has been previously mentioned in this thread, there have been three 'Meat Loaf' albums in recent years: CHSIB, Hang Cool and Hand Basket. Those who like their Meat 'Steinman free' have been well satiated. Those who prefer their Meat with a big helping of Steinman have had to wait a lot longer.

When Hang Cool arrived on the scene, those who didn't like Meat's current direction were basically told (repeatedly) to either like the new sound, put up with it or ~~~~ off. Now Meat is doing some stuff with Steinman again, I suggest those who gave the above advice, heed their own words.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by MarkS

Again, 15 year old material is going to sound like 15 year old material unless the lyrics are updated. Its usually pretty easy to hear a song and say that it wasn't written recently. And much of the Steinman stuff has been demoed or covered by someone along the way, so I'm guessing most of this stuff is coming from a box covered in dust in the back corner of a dank basement, and it is likely going to read that way.

Doubt it

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

B. Actually, no, that's absolute twoddle. I'd give you a 'if you listen to the production you might be able to tell it's from 15 years ago', but unless Steinman's started dropping in references to shell suits and bum-bags I don't buy for one minute that you'd be able to date a song from the lyrics alone. Maybe you should write to him and suggest he drops in a few 'iPads' and 'twerks' so his songs'll have a more contemporary edge

What part of my iPad twerks the most?

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

A. We don't know that; it's complete speculation.

B. Actually, no, that's absolute twoddle. I'd give you a 'if you listen to the production you might be able to tell it's from 15 years ago', but unless Steinman's started dropping in references to shell suits and bum-bags I don't buy for one minute that you'd be able to date a song from the lyrics alone. Maybe you should write to him and suggest he drops in a few 'iPads' and 'twerks' so his songs'll have a more contemporary edge

A. Everything that you are doing is also speculation, so welcome to the club sunshine

B. Let's take just for example "Frying Pan" one chorus and you can tell the song was written pre 1990 because no one has used the phrase "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire" since, well quite frankly I can't remember the last time anyone said it. It isn't hard to date a song based on production and lyrics, not an exact science, but ballpark isn't that hard, so your entire post was "absolute twoddle" or perhaps poppycock, hey there's another word that hasn't been used relevantly in 20 years.

On a complete side note, since we are going to be rehashing old material, I would love to see Prize Fight Lover get an official release as part of "Brave and Crazy" excellent song

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Edit: though as for the latter half of your comment to Mark S above, I think you should review the tone of this thread if you're still in the dark about why some might find the tone kind of anti-Steinman.

I just read through the entire thread. If you are referring to my comment to Mark "I struggle to see why this should be construed by anyone as some veiled criticism of Steinman." .. As far as discussion on news of the album is concerned, up until you posted you felt there was some passive anti-Steinman-ism, leaving aside discussions on inclusion/exclusion of Body, numbers of songs and restrictions in the USA, and album title, there was one comment that expressed some disappointment that there would be less from other writers, 4 that were elated to find 6 Steinman songs would be on it (including some hopes for more), and one welcoming tracks written by Steinman and others. I don't see anything pervasively anti-Steinman there.

If on the other hand you are referring to my saying in my later reply to Mark:

It's not obligatory to want only Steinman compositions on a new Meat album. I have said more than once I am delighted for Meat, and for those who seem to want only Steinman songs that they are getting more than was first anticipated. I will also say again it is NOT "anti-Steinman" to be looking forward to the songs from other respected writers. I have paid full respect to Steinman in my replies here .. principally because he deserves it, and also because Meat expects that of his fans. But I like the work of other writers as well. That is MY taste, and not anti anyone, not disrespectful of anyone's genius, and simply because I am a fan of Meat's work, across the board.

I would refute that anything in that is in any way "anti" in word or tone. To like the work of other writers is not "anti" Steinman .. and I really do not believe he would see it that way; in fact I'd be disappointed if he did. Nor is it "anti" to look forward to hearing Meat perform their songs.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by MarkS

B. Let's take just for example "Frying Pan" one chorus and you can tell the song was written pre 1990 because no one has used the phrase "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire" since, well quite frankly I can't remember the last time anyone said it. It isn't hard to date a song based on production and lyrics, not an exact science, but ballpark isn't that hard, so your entire post was "absolute twoddle" or perhaps poppycock, hey there's another word that hasn't been used relevantly in 20 years.

Actually that's a bad example as that idiom has existed since 1490. That's longer than the USA. But sure I appreciate you are saying you don't tend to hear classic lyrics based on old sayings/clichés etc such as those in Steinman's lyrics in a lot of music almost at all anymore. One has to wonder though if that makes his music more or less timeless. In my opinion it's absolutely the former as I simply cannot imagine me logging on online in 40 years time and debating Miley Cyrus' We can't stop and Justin Bieber's Baby Baby Ooh and talking to some fellow geriatrics "hey remember this classic? It always reminds me of..." etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping..._into_the_fire

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Actually that's a bad example as that idiom has existed since 1490. That's longer than the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping..._into_the_fire

Excellent example, the point being that no one who speaks normally uses that phrase in 2013. Yes, that like most phrases are old, but when it comes to being used in standard language and dare I say songs, it hasn't been done in a mainstream song since Frying Pan. It dates the bloody material.