It don't mean a thing ....(if it ain't got that Jim) - Page 4

evil nickname · 22 May 2003, 12:20

First off, Fire Ball, you've go a pm :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariella

I know you are upset, and from what I just read I might get the impression that you are saying Meats music doesn't tough your soul. And believe me, it doesn't HAVE to. But somehow I believe his music does mean a lot to you.
You just don't cry over a song easy, that's okay, you don't have to either.

There are few things that touch me less that Meat and Jim's music... I get, like, "in the zone", if you know what I mean...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariella

Have you been reading everything? And if so, do you really feel we don't 'dare' to say anything negative about Meat?

I've read a lot here, and I can't really recall any 'critical'/negative posts. But that could also be the beer :-) or my memory failing me

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariella

Maybe you don't feel comfortable with this 'happy' attitude some of us have over here. Because from what I've read you have every record, went to the amsterdam show, even to the M&G if I am right. So, this music must be important to you. You wouldn't 'bother' to come over here if it wasn't.

The one record I'm missing is the 1974 More Than You Deserve, so if anyone can help me with that...[/shameless plug]. But other than that, I'm always trying to be possitive about everything, but as I've said in my PM to Meat, it hurts me when its being implied that I'm a liar who hates him, and when I feel I'm wronged, I speak my mind. And well, I'm getting really annoyed with all this bitching back and forth... so maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariella

And you CAN make up your own mind, everyone here does that, I think it just doesn't seem that way to you. That is not my problem.

Well, in my last post, I was specically replying to Bart, who said that:
Everybody makes war -- I don't (well, at least I don't bomb other countries)
We all love the Loaf, -- I do
we all love the Jim, -- again, I do
we have all the same wonderful feelings when we listen to their music. -- how can you know that?
We all cry when we listen to it, -- I don't
we all cry when we hear his voice, -- I'd be crying a lot then, but again, I don't
we all have shiver down ou spines. -- sometimes it happens because of the music, sometimes because of the draft I'm sitting in :-)
we ALL have the same interests, -- and that can't certainly be true.

Don't state things as a fact when you can't back it up... (hmm, where've I read that before?) and this is just so silly... if you have that, fine, but don't assume of me I have that to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariella

Great day to you,

And to you too, and a fine meal, with bits of bacon in it :-) (as a certain Dutch preacher would say)

William

CarylB · 22 May 2003, 12:28

I have no idea why people want to post such reviews to here Tink, and even less as to why people on the Steinman list/board feel the need to be so gratuitously unpleasant about Meat, for I don't think I've ever seen Meat Loaf fans be so about Jim. And I agree with Jules and others who have posted in similar vein, being positive and polite isn't A-kissing. (Hey .. I finally found a way to convey this .. the board has an Auntie Beeb nanny built in :) ) There are plenty of performers I don't like .. but I don't seek out forums to post negative and unpleasant things about them .. what's the point?

One of the things that always beggars me is the constant need to pick at every non-Steinman song Meat records, looking for similarities and suggesting they are attempts to imitate his work .. for to me they miss the common denominator that is MEAT!! It's HE who makes a song sound like it does imo .. so if someone can hear a similarity between AFL and I'd Lie For You or DIST for example, I think the reason one hears that is because it is Meat delivering the song.

As to him "taking over" interviews .. he PERFORMS for heaven's sake .. that's what he does, it's what the TV company wants, it's what his fans expect. He is a consummate performer and 150% entertaining .. watching him on the Graham N show was the best couple of hours entertainment I have ever seen .. and when he was singing CHSIB I caught Graham's eye and whispered "Thank you .. that was wonderful" .. and Graham's reply? "It's not me .. it's HIM. He's incredible!!" .. and there perhaps we have it re those who always seek to pull him down. Perhaps they resent his success in his own right .. certainly they seem to resent any suggestion that he would have had the success he has had without JS. I've had arguments with people who post here about this. (One not so very far actually :) ) My own view .. someone with Meat's voice and skills as an actor, versatility of talent, and drive and determination would have been a success whomsoever he met or didn't. He was destined for success. May his star never falter.

Finally, it's not a competition! Jim has written some great songs .. he's a composer. Meat delivers songs in an outstanding way .. he's a performer. Bathtubs and bobcats .. Elton John composes songs and delivers them, Bernie writes the lyrics. You don't see arguments raging about Elton versus Bernie .. and imo those about Meat v Jim are pointless. For me Meat's the best. That's why I come here. I don't kncok Jim, I do applaud Meat. That's not A-kissing .. it's being a fan .. and it's more laudable than A-kicking!!

MBrevard · 22 May 2003, 12:48

dottie · 22 May 2003, 13:17

Oh my God - So much anger on here - wish I'd never started this topic.
All this negative vibe is making me feel ill - I think it might be a good idea to ask if this topic could be locked.

MBrevard · 22 May 2003, 13:29

Oh, Dottie! No! I hope they don't lock this topic. Perhaps Meat, himself, might want to say more, after he's had some time away from all this and has calmed down.

And don't feel bad about starting it. Don't feel bad--period!

If these problems and concerns hadn't surfaced here, they probably would have somewhere else. Some things just have to come out, you know, in order to get resolved!

I'm hoping everyone will/can come together and work things out!! We have such a terrific bunch of people here and they have the great capability to love and to forgive and to work through the difficult times!

Here's to happier occasions in the days ahead!! (Like another showing of G.N.

)

Love to you,
MB
xxx

Oriel · 22 May 2003, 13:30

* and MBrevard is carried away screaming in a straight jacket...

Firstly,
MBrevard: Meat is the only person "shouting", (and yourself now).

This thing has been blown all out of proportion (thanks MB).
The main thing is, it is only a few people who are causing this "trouble".

Meat,
Please don't consider all of us at the Steinman site to be the way you so eagerly described. We have a few of these people, yeah, but then what board doesn't?
Also, any facts that appear on Dream Pollution come from other sources, not from us.

I'm not going to apologise for anything on the site, as I am obviously in no position to do so.

I think you should sort this out once and for all. I've been going to the Jimmy site for 5 years and have seen everything, but I think you have been misunderstood on a few occasions. People have got their wires crossed...

Meat, I genuinely think that you could make your peace with "them", and I for one would like to see it happen. A lot has been said, but not everything has been listened to...

Sinecure.
[/b]

MBrevard · 22 May 2003, 13:46

Hi, Sinecure! Thanks for continuing the discussion, although, with a bit of a Rockman Philharmonic response.

No one accused you of shouting. In fact, the invitation was to calmly discuss things, including your points of view.

Meat's reaction shows that things were already "blown out of proportion," as you call it.

But I'm SO glad you said what you did to him! And I mean that! I wish more folks from the other site would come and tell him that! I'm sure all of us here are hoping that things can be resolved peacefully for everyone's sake---LONG before the next Bat album is ready!!

Love,
MB
xxx

evil nickname · 22 May 2003, 13:47

MB, you've said some smart and true things, but you're comepletely and utterly wrong on this one...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBrevard

I don't know how else to say this, but it is just plain RUDE to come to a person's fan club and put them down. There are plenty of other places in which that can be done, if you so choose. The Rockman Philharmonic is one of those, because that's the way it's been set up.

So you say that The Rockman Record (the message board) and Rockman Philharmonic (The Jim Steinman Society for the Arts) are set up to put down Meat. That's a lie, and you know it... or as you like to call it yourself, just plain rude. You're doing the same now...

FYI,

Quote:

Rockman Philharmonic - The Jim Steinman Society For The Arts exists to honor and highlight the Accomplishments, Style and Wit of this innovative VIRTUOSO!

And that does not read: "Rockman Philharmonic - The Jim Steinman Society for the Arts exists a) to honor and hightlight the Accomplishmenst [editorial note: which include Bat, DR and Bat II], Style and Wit of this innovatie VIRTUOSO! And b) to put down Meat Loaf!"

Oh and another 'nice' bit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBrevard

Two of them come here! Either we learn to live with them or they won't stay long.

Nice to know I'm welcome here.[/sarcasm]

As I said, you started out smart, but you went and made the same mistake you accuse others off! I was feeling a lot better... but after reading you post... well, I don't know anymore...

heat · 22 May 2003, 14:01

Bloody Hell

There's a right hornets nest stirred up here, aint there???

I don't want to get into an argument or fall out with anybody - we are all entitled to our opinons after all - it's just when it gets personal then people start to get hurt, and i think thats the last thing anyone on here actually wants.

I think perhaps we should all calm down a little, take a deep breath, and get some perspective here.

Heat
xxx

Oriel · 22 May 2003, 14:03

Evil Nickname:
I think we could submit MB's post for an English Literature coursework text

...and I tihnk don't we all have time to study it...

MBrevard:
Thanks for your kind words, and encouragment. I'm trying to resovle something that, in my eyes, shouldn't exist at all.

Dottie:
I think that locking this topic would be a bad idea - people have things that they want to say, blocking them from doing this will not be for the greater good of the board and it's users.

Both sets of fans are pedalling in the same direction, it's just that some aren't really in control of the bicycle ALL of the time.
So, from now on, how about trying to make this more of a discussion, rather than an argument y'all?

Peace,
Stephen.

MBrevard · 22 May 2003, 14:19

Hi, William!! Quick responses this morning. That's good! Middle of the night here for me, so I have time to respond.

First of all, thank you for writing back. I love to talking with people and I also love the chance to work through problems.

The main point of your last post was a line from mine and now we have an excellent example of how easy it is to twist things and misinterpret things--something we all do!

What I was trying to say was that the Rockman Philharmonic and its message board was set up to be totally free--with few restrictions placed on it. So it's a place where all comments are welcomed. I was NOT trying to say that it was set up TO BE "rude" to Meat--or actually, ANYTHING to Meat at all. I agree with you--that would be a ridiculous statement, since R.P. is all about Jim, NOT Meat. :)

So, I am sorry for that misunderstanding and I hope you'll go back and reread that section with the real meaning in mind.

I think, in terms of discussion, that covers the first two of your comments about my posting.

The third one is a sad statement, isn't it, but true. And it's not that you're not welcome, William. But when people come to a place like this one, as Bart stated so well earlier, to have fun, to have a good time, to relax with people whose company they enjoy, then they don't want to see the place be downgraded to a war-like situation. And we have people writing in like Dottie a few minutes ago about the anger and feeling sick from it. Feeling bad about having started this topic. That's not what this place is all about. I'm sure you can understand that.

That's why I invited you to share more of your points of view here, so that all of us could better understand where you are coming from, where your comments were coming from.

And I hope you will continue to do that.

Here's hoping you feel better about things now.

Hi again, Stephen! Thanks for the name, by the way! I'm so glad you stayed around to talk some more!

I agree wtih you that this situation between Meat and Jim's fans should NOT exist! Especially now, when there is hope for the next album. When three songs from it have already been written and we all have heard that they are "amazing"!! This should be a time of great joy for all of us!!

Right now, of course, we are concentrating on Meat's new album. But there is so much to look forward to in the future. And it would be wonderful if ALL of us could do that together!!

Thanks, Heat!! Couldn't agree with ya more!!

Love to all,
MB
xxx

Niné · 22 May 2003, 14:35

Meat i agree. I saw the show in Amsterdam. And yes it was dynamic and you give everything. And it was funny too. Wait till they come to see a show than they will talk different.

evil nickname · 22 May 2003, 15:31

Middle of the day over here in The Netherlands, and I'm having a day off, so I have nothing better to do... so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBrevard

The main point of your last post was a line from mine and now we have an excellent example of how easy it is to twist things and misinterpret things--something we all do!

What I was trying to say was that the Rockman Philharmonic and its message board was set up to be totally free--with few restrictions placed on it. So it's a place where all comments are welcomed. I was NOT trying to say that it was set up TO BE "rude" to Meat--or actually, ANYTHING to Meat at all. I agree with you--that would be a ridiculous statement, since R.P. is all about Jim, NOT Meat. :)

So, I am sorry for that misunderstanding and I hope you'll go back and reread that section with the real meaning in mind.

Okay, I can see where you come from, but if you read the snippet I posted, and you do some subsitution it might look like this:

Code:

I don't know how else to say this, but it is just plain RUDE to come to a person's fan club and put them down. 
There are plenty of other places in which that[=putting them down] can be done, if you so choose. 
The Rockman Philharmonic is one of those [=a place where you can put people down], because that's the way it's been set up.

It could be that I overanalyze sentances, maybe its because English is not my native language, but too me, that's what it says. And that is not true... maybe you meant it in a comeplety different way, but this is what I make off it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBrevard

The third one is a sad statement, isn't it, but true. And it's not that you're not welcome, William. But when people come to a place like this one, as Bart stated so well earlier, to have fun, to have a good time, to relax with people whose company they enjoy, then they don't want to see the place be downgraded to a war-like situation. And we have people writing in like Dottie a few minutes ago about the anger and feeling sick from it. Feeling bad about having started this topic. That's not what this place is all about. I'm sure you can understand that.

I'm not here to 'downgrade' the forum. Like you, I come here to have a good time. But when people here are constantly bashing on an other place where I like to go and have fun, and seem to do so with 'ficteous' reasons, well, I feel bad and hurt too. Because I *know* that not everyone hates Meat there. I keep saying that, but then I keep running into walls over and over again... If I didn't give a ratt's butt about what happens here, I would not even bother to punch in lengthy replies, and read them again and again just to make sure it says what I want to say... I would go like, "whatever" and don't show up anymore. And sarcasm and cynicalism (is that a word by the way?) are some of my trademarks...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBrevard

That's why I invited you to share more of your points of view here, so that all of us could better understand where you are coming from, where your comments were coming from.

And I hope you will continue to do that.

Well, seems I'm at it again. My whole point in this matter is just this: just like Meat doesn't like to be "constantly be put down by everyone over there" (which isn't true: fact), I don't like being put down here for something that I didn't do in the first place. If you don't know what's going on, how can you have an opinion about that? That's stupid, and even dangerous! And you can't know what's really going on somewhere, if you don't participate/seriously lurk around, and just take a quick peak every now and then.

I'd like to close with a quote from Live:

Quote:

All this discussion
Although politically correct
Is dead beyond destruction
Though it leaves me quite erect

[snipped]

Look where all this talking got us, baby

Couldn't've said it better myself ;-)

CarylB · 22 May 2003, 16:05

Evil Nickname, a lot of what you say is spot on .. although I think it's also fair to say that there are those on the DP board and the Gospel list who take a delight in knocking Meat .. but that isn't the majority. However, when they get going they are pretty mean spirited in what they say. I also stand by what I said which is that I've never heard Meat fans put down Jim ..

Meat fans tend to be supportive rather than critical of Meat .. well there's a surprise! Jim fans tend to be the same. And before anyone tells me that they've been critical re DOV .. most blame it's unfortunate demise on everyone else involved in the production .. understandably .. they're Jim fans .. but it goes to show that fans will support their icon.

But I'm surprised at people getting their feathers so ruffled at what has been posted in the last few pages .. people have views and opinions and have expressed them .. that seems fair to me .. there has been nothing really vicious .. not since the initial calls to send the reviewer "back to hell where he belongs" . I think there's been more epithets applied to, and harsh words thrown at him than at anybody in this discussion!

But I also think Meat's big enough not to be crying into his Starbucks, nor to need this thread locked down :) No-one likes pot shots and half truths/lies aimed at them .. He feels strongly and reacts .. it's called passion .. and it's what makes him the performer he is

Someone with his resilience and strength may need our support .. but not our protection. He's a big man .. and he lets off steam with a big rant :)

CarylB · 22 May 2003, 16:07

Oh .. and meant to answer your question .. it's CYNICISM .. but you were close

Asha · 22 May 2003, 16:45

I have been reading this topic for the third time today, and I do not know these Jim forums everybody is talking about (so shoot me, but at the moment I'm not intersted in them)

I do know how I would react is someone makes a personal post about me that's not true. I would be mad, and I would most probably make a reply wich would be hurtfull, and in my opinion true. And, yes, it would be something ugly (I have learned through alot of shame not to do it anymore, so I mostly keep my mouth shut) The biggest problem is that the other person would feel hurt, and he/she would be the last person to forgive and forget...
I have been hurt more by my own remarks about people then they have, probably.

You try and make peace with someone you called something ugly a few minutes earlier, well in my experience, that's not likely to happen.

But I have learned that is you say something negative about someone, and you say it constructively, it goes over much better.
So, what if I didn't like Jim's way of writing e.g. (I do like his music alot, just an example) I could call him a big ....(Something ugly) for writing this music, or I could say: I do not like you music because I think...(you think of something). Wich would you prefer?? I know wich I would like better.

So, if you do not like to keep the peace you would probably say the first, otherwise you would say the latter.

So, I like meat's big voice, his energy, his performances, the way he entertains...eventhough i do not like/love every song he ever performed.
It also doesn't mean Meat is my live.
I also love my family, my Job, you name it. My job is stressfull, dealing with a lot off other peoples hurts..and i like to unwind to good rock music, not only meat's though.
So I might not understand what you see in Robbie Williams e.g. I don't dig his music, does it make me less human??? So if someone likes robbie and not meat, does it make them less human?? I do not think so...
I might not understand why they like that music, but I can try, and I can accept it for their opinion.

I just hope we can all give some constructive critism on this board, and not just say, you are wrong, and I am right, period.
That is not a discussion, it's a yes and no game. If you want to speak your mind, and it's not so possitive, fine, go right ahead, but don't go saying to someone, you are this or that, when you do not even know them.
If you do not like what i have said, fine, I respect you for that, but don't say to me that I'm wrong, because this is the way I feel, and for me this is true.

Anyway I wish all off you a great day, and I hope everybody can let off some steam. Live isn't always fair, but we can make the best of it.

Asha

MBrevard · 22 May 2003, 18:04

Hi again!

William, thanks for continuing the conversation. Good to hear from you! It's morning now in California, so it's not as easy for me to come and write here. My time is usually spent taking care of my elderly parents!

But I wanted to take a few moments to respond to your last comments.

Sorry that that one section continues to bother you. The last time we talked about it, I tried to share with you what I had meant to say. I can't say more than that. If it wasn't clear in my original post, then I apologize for that. But my last response still stands. That is what I meant.

Now, let me take a moment to explain something to you. I am a recent poster here, but have been lurking for 2 to 3 years, coming once or twice a day, reading everyone's posts, feeling as though I was getting to know so many of the wonderful folks at the MLUKFC.

But I'm usually the shy type, so it took me a while to get going and I only did that because, after so much time reading everyone's thoughts here, I felt comfortable doing so.

But I have also been lurking at the RP message board for that SAME LENGTH OF TIME--at least once a day, sometimes, twice. And I have to admit, it would NEVER be a place I would post to--mostly because of the attitude I have found there from some of the major posters--not everyone, mind you. But some of those who post regularly.

I suppose that's another reason I react so strongly, when Meat does on this subject, because for the most part, I, too, have seen what he is talking about!

But before you start to respond, unlike him, I do NOT think that everyone there feels that way about him. I have seen some positive posting. And that's why, in my original post to him, I was trying to put some perspective on those numbers.

But you know what I have also felt there, William? That people who do NOT feel the same way as these major and frequent message board posters, DO NOT post positive Meat statements to counter the few who are throwing out the negatives so freely!!

So, it may be true (and I believe it IS) that not everyone at that board hates or dislikes Meat, but for the most part, those who feel differently, do NOT express those feelings openly. Therefore, it's so easy to walk away from the board believing, as Meat does, that everyone there hates him! I can understand that entirely!!

If anyone were to go through the past couple of years' messages there, I think they would see or feel the same thing!

Does that make sense, William? I hope so. If you feel differently about Meat, and obviously, from all you have said here, you do, then, would YOU feel comfortable going to the JS board and posting very positive statements about him??

Again, I am NOT being facetious here. I am being serious and straight with you. If you (and some of the others who like Meat) would speak up more readily, more openly than has been seen in the past, that might just make all the difference in the world--to Meat and to all of us who do read that board and have that same sad feeling, after leaving it!

And I am truly sorry that you feel you're being mistreated here. I hope that by everyone continuing the discussions as we are right now, things will be better for all who come here and want to share their opinions no matter what they are.

Talking to each other like this is always good!!

Glad to hear you have the day off there. I hope it continues to be a good one for you!!

Asha, what a wonderful message! Thank you SO much for making the point that putting one's point of view in a positive way, is ALWAYS a better way to communicate than sharing the negative side of it!! I couldn't agree more!

I used to run a very large website and fan group for another actor--did it for several years. And in the discussion areas of it, because I, myself, was not comfortable with a lot of negative thoughts, I always asked people that if they wanted to disagree with things others had said, to please turn them around and express them positively, sticking to what they FELT, NOT to how they disagreed with someone else. (I'm not sure that's clear--and so I may have William or someone else on me again.

)

But in other words, being positive about how one feels is better than just putting someone else down if you don't feel the same as they do!!

I couldn't agree more and thank you SO much for making the point!!

Well, forgive me. It's breakfast time for two 89-year-olds. So, I have to go downstairs for a while. If you wish to continue the conversation, William (or anyone else) I'll try to be back here later!!

Continued love to all of you,
MB
xxx

Asha · 22 May 2003, 18:28

Thx MB,

I just wanted to say that if you do not agree with someone tell them why you do not agree, don't just say you're wrong.

If you wanna tell me that I am and a..s, say: I think you are an a..s and plz tell me why.
Don't say to me: You are an a..s.
That doesn't go over well, anyway, can't say it different, these kinds of discussions are better when you can look someone in the eye.

Asha

Peat Loaf · 22 May 2003, 19:10

Yeah getting wires crossed seem to have been happening quite a lot these days and people getting the wrong end of the stick I know I have had the hammer come down on me BIG style for something I never did there is nothing worse than being accused of saying and doing things you have not said and done and that is plane to see here but if I can add my bit with a post I put up else where I thinks it appropriate here to so here goes

Hi Guys

Might as well get in on the act here too the thing with the Steinmeanies is they hate Meat coz he is the one that got all the fame and the biggest accolade from Bat but what they don't seem to get through there thick skulls is yes Jim did put meat on the map so to speak but and a big but at that Meat also put Jim on the map too more infact you see Meat has proved time and time again that he can sing any ones songs and perform them like no one else I have heard other people singing Jim’s songs and even Jim him self example I remember seeing Jim’s own rendition of Rock n Roll Dreams on German TV some years ago but look at that and then Look at Meats version of the same song sorry Jim but there's no comparison.

I am over the moon the Meat and Jim are back working together as when they are and all the leaches and scumbags stay out the way there is no better combination as we all (apart from Jim's fanatics which is no bearing on Jim I might add) Know. So if I dare say Big Guy don’t let them get to you bro as we all know what the down is and we don’t care what they say and any way there's more of us than there is of them

Pete

ps. Just another thing for the Steinmeannies to think about is i don't see any Jim Steinman Tribute Bands out there do you ???

_________________
Another New York waltz at 4 am and the canyons lost at night the citys just a jail for me full high rise prison walls

Oriel · 22 May 2003, 19:18

Oh dear...and yet another hostile attack on us Jim fans.

And you think we're bad?

Stephen.

Peat Loaf · 22 May 2003, 19:26

No it is not you (not you personaly) have been attacking Meat for years for the reasons i have said and it's a FACT and beleve me when i tell you there is no one in the world right now that has more reason not to be a Meat Loaf fan than me just now. But at the end of the day what i posted IS the Truth

Pete

Fire Ball · 22 May 2003, 19:48

Didn't Know CAPTIALS was yelling...... Sorry....... Just making a point for me. I don't go to the Steinman site....... the 2 times I have, I have read lies . It's not telling the truth that gets me....... They can say anything they what..... They just seem to be angry depressed people (opinion). Don't worry guys I'm fine with what they say until they start quoting me and it's wrong. Example: I Was to have said that Nikki Sixx can out write Jim. The day that happens the Ice will melt at both Poles .( Lets get this straight I like Nikki and what he has done.)< no more miss quotes.> But they had me saying it!! oh by the way it came from the Nikki Sixx web page. But I was the one who said it. I wrote a lot of posts over there on that site about that, but I don't believe they thought it was me, also wrote 4 emails to the person who started it, but he never replied, even to ask if I had said it, he just continued to write the Lie . His web site says he's a big fan of mine. something funny about! Over there I think it's mob rule, and people are afarid to go upstream. but Let's hope he gets the album, then we will be at 400,001. again I don't go there... the thing about the TV shows just came to me in an e-mail. Jim is Great I'm pretty good and together we made 2 great records, BOTTOM LINE (not yelling).
A couple of the records I made without him were ok, but CHSIB is very special (TIM

) and will still be saying that in 25 years, maybe I'll put that on my tombstone along with "told you I was sick". To everyone at both sites Have a great day, and to the people at the Jim site try and be Happy

I know it's hard for you but Just say "I know I can , I know I can" (joke).

See You on Tour
We have 2 incredible Guitar players
A dream come true and a girl on guitar OH BOY!! (shouting)

Love Ya
Meat

mariella · 22 May 2003, 19:49

Hi Sinecure,

Pete is a Meat Loaf-tribute band/act (I don't really know) from his point of view it's not so strange to think of other tribute bands. I really don't think he was 'attacking' Jim-fans.
I don't think we should go on about this, if we do we start comparing and WHY would we do that???

That sort of 'discussion' will not work out for any of us, I think.
But it's very good too see what's been happening here today. Thank you!

Pete, I really respect the way you talk about Meat, specially with what has happened recently. Just wanted to tell you that.

Great day to all of you,

Mariella

Is it too soon for a 'group-hug'??

dottie · 22 May 2003, 19:55

Fire Ball if your're still on line just wanted to say - this topic has strayed so much from the original that I started - and I don't like this any more than you do.

Thanks by the way for the fabulous show

Love dot wigley
xxx

Peat Loaf · 22 May 2003, 20:03

Mariella Said

Pete, I really respect the way you talk about Meat, specially with what has happened recently. Just wanted to tell you that.

Thank's Mariella but when you have been what i have been though and pulled back by some one you cant just turn feeling like that off like you can a light switch

Pete

22 May 2003, 19:48	#97
Fire Ball Himself Join Date: 05.02.2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,044	my last word on this---- lets make a move Didn't Know CAPTIALS was yelling...... Sorry....... Just making a point for me. I don't go to the Steinman site....... the 2 times I have, I have read lies . It's not telling the truth that gets me....... They can say anything they what..... They just seem to be angry depressed people (opinion). Don't worry guys I'm fine with what they say until they start quoting me and it's wrong. Example: I Was to have said that Nikki Sixx can out write Jim. The day that happens the Ice will melt at both Poles .( Lets get this straight I like Nikki and what he has done.)< no more miss quotes.> But they had me saying it!! oh by the way it came from the Nikki Sixx web page. But I was the one who said it. I wrote a lot of posts over there on that site about that, but I don't believe they thought it was me, also wrote 4 emails to the person who started it, but he never replied, even to ask if I had said it, he just continued to write the Lie . His web site says he's a big fan of mine. something funny about! Over there I think it's mob rule, and people are afarid to go upstream. but Let's hope he gets the album, then we will be at 400,001. again I don't go there... the thing about the TV shows just came to me in an e-mail. Jim is Great I'm pretty good and together we made 2 great records, BOTTOM LINE (not yelling). A couple of the records I made without him were ok, but CHSIB is very special (TIM ) and will still be saying that in 25 years, maybe I'll put that on my tombstone along with "told you I was sick". To everyone at both sites Have a great day, and to the people at the Jim site try and be Happy I know it's hard for you but Just say "I know I can , I know I can" (joke). See You on Tour We have 2 incredible Guitar players A dream come true and a girl on guitar OH BOY!! (shouting) Love Ya Meat

22 May 2003, 12:28	#77
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	I have no idea why people want to post such reviews to here Tink, and even less as to why people on the Steinman list/board feel the need to be so gratuitously unpleasant about Meat, for I don't think I've ever seen Meat Loaf fans be so about Jim. And I agree with Jules and others who have posted in similar vein, being positive and polite isn't A-kissing. (Hey .. I finally found a way to convey this .. the board has an Auntie Beeb nanny built in :) ) There are plenty of performers I don't like .. but I don't seek out forums to post negative and unpleasant things about them .. what's the point? One of the things that always beggars me is the constant need to pick at every non-Steinman song Meat records, looking for similarities and suggesting they are attempts to imitate his work .. for to me they miss the common denominator that is MEAT!! It's HE who makes a song sound like it does imo .. so if someone can hear a similarity between AFL and I'd Lie For You or DIST for example, I think the reason one hears that is because it is Meat delivering the song. As to him "taking over" interviews .. he PERFORMS for heaven's sake .. that's what he does, it's what the TV company wants, it's what his fans expect. He is a consummate performer and 150% entertaining .. watching him on the Graham N show was the best couple of hours entertainment I have ever seen .. and when he was singing CHSIB I caught Graham's eye and whispered "Thank you .. that was wonderful" .. and Graham's reply? "It's not me .. it's HIM. He's incredible!!" .. and there perhaps we have it re those who always seek to pull him down. Perhaps they resent his success in his own right .. certainly they seem to resent any suggestion that he would have had the success he has had without JS. I've had arguments with people who post here about this. (One not so very far actually :) ) My own view .. someone with Meat's voice and skills as an actor, versatility of talent, and drive and determination would have been a success whomsoever he met or didn't. He was destined for success. May his star never falter. Finally, it's not a competition! Jim has written some great songs .. he's a composer. Meat delivers songs in an outstanding way .. he's a performer. Bathtubs and bobcats .. Elton John composes songs and delivers them, Bernie writes the lyrics. You don't see arguments raging about Elton versus Bernie .. and imo those about Meat v Jim are pointless. For me Meat's the best. That's why I come here. I don't kncok Jim, I do applaud Meat. That's not A-kissing .. it's being a fan .. and it's more laudable than A-kicking!!

22 May 2003, 12:48	#78
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761

22 May 2003, 13:17	#79
dottie queen post- whore extraordinaire Join Date: 29.01.2003 Location: Still Rockin' at "72" Posts: 13,181	Oh my God - So much anger on here - wish I'd never started this topic. All this negative vibe is making me feel ill - I think it might be a good idea to ask if this topic could be locked.

22 May 2003, 13:29	#80
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761	Oh, Dottie! No! I hope they don't lock this topic. Perhaps Meat, himself, might want to say more, after he's had some time away from all this and has calmed down. And don't feel bad about starting it. Don't feel bad--period! If these problems and concerns hadn't surfaced here, they probably would have somewhere else. Some things just have to come out, you know, in order to get resolved! I'm hoping everyone will/can come together and work things out!! We have such a terrific bunch of people here and they have the great capability to love and to forgive and to work through the difficult times! Here's to happier occasions in the days ahead!! (Like another showing of G.N. ) Love to you, MB xxx

22 May 2003, 13:30	#81
Oriel Senior Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 161	* and MBrevard is carried away screaming in a straight jacket... Firstly, MBrevard: Meat is the only person "shouting", (and yourself now). This thing has been blown all out of proportion (thanks MB). The main thing is, it is only a few people who are causing this "trouble". Meat, Please don't consider all of us at the Steinman site to be the way you so eagerly described. We have a few of these people, yeah, but then what board doesn't? Also, any facts that appear on Dream Pollution come from other sources, not from us. I'm not going to apologise for anything on the site, as I am obviously in no position to do so. I think you should sort this out once and for all. I've been going to the Jimmy site for 5 years and have seen everything, but I think you have been misunderstood on a few occasions. People have got their wires crossed... Meat, I genuinely think that you could make your peace with "them", and I for one would like to see it happen. A lot has been said, but not everything has been listened to... Sinecure. [/b]

22 May 2003, 13:46	#82
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761	Hi, Sinecure! Thanks for continuing the discussion, although, with a bit of a Rockman Philharmonic response. No one accused you of shouting. In fact, the invitation was to calmly discuss things, including your points of view. Meat's reaction shows that things were already "blown out of proportion," as you call it. But I'm SO glad you said what you did to him! And I mean that! I wish more folks from the other site would come and tell him that! I'm sure all of us here are hoping that things can be resolved peacefully for everyone's sake---LONG before the next Bat album is ready!! Love, MB xxx

22 May 2003, 14:01	#84
heat Rampant Loafer... Join Date: 29.07.2002 Location: welshy wales Posts: 5,706	Bloody Hell There's a right hornets nest stirred up here, aint there??? I don't want to get into an argument or fall out with anybody - we are all entitled to our opinons after all - it's just when it gets personal then people start to get hurt, and i think thats the last thing anyone on here actually wants. I think perhaps we should all calm down a little, take a deep breath, and get some perspective here. Heat xxx

22 May 2003, 14:03	#85
Oriel Senior Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 161	Evil Nickname: I think we could submit MB's post for an English Literature coursework text ...and I tihnk don't we all have time to study it... MBrevard: Thanks for your kind words, and encouragment. I'm trying to resovle something that, in my eyes, shouldn't exist at all. Dottie: I think that locking this topic would be a bad idea - people have things that they want to say, blocking them from doing this will not be for the greater good of the board and it's users. Both sets of fans are pedalling in the same direction, it's just that some aren't really in control of the bicycle ALL of the time. So, from now on, how about trying to make this more of a discussion, rather than an argument y'all? Peace, Stephen.

22 May 2003, 14:19	#86
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761	Hi, William!! Quick responses this morning. That's good! Middle of the night here for me, so I have time to respond. First of all, thank you for writing back. I love to talking with people and I also love the chance to work through problems. The main point of your last post was a line from mine and now we have an excellent example of how easy it is to twist things and misinterpret things--something we all do! What I was trying to say was that the Rockman Philharmonic and its message board was set up to be totally free--with few restrictions placed on it. So it's a place where all comments are welcomed. I was NOT trying to say that it was set up TO BE "rude" to Meat--or actually, ANYTHING to Meat at all. I agree with you--that would be a ridiculous statement, since R.P. is all about Jim, NOT Meat. :) So, I am sorry for that misunderstanding and I hope you'll go back and reread that section with the real meaning in mind. I think, in terms of discussion, that covers the first two of your comments about my posting. The third one is a sad statement, isn't it, but true. And it's not that you're not welcome, William. But when people come to a place like this one, as Bart stated so well earlier, to have fun, to have a good time, to relax with people whose company they enjoy, then they don't want to see the place be downgraded to a war-like situation. And we have people writing in like Dottie a few minutes ago about the anger and feeling sick from it. Feeling bad about having started this topic. That's not what this place is all about. I'm sure you can understand that. That's why I invited you to share more of your points of view here, so that all of us could better understand where you are coming from, where your comments were coming from. And I hope you will continue to do that. Here's hoping you feel better about things now. Hi again, Stephen! Thanks for the name, by the way! I'm so glad you stayed around to talk some more! I agree wtih you that this situation between Meat and Jim's fans should NOT exist! Especially now, when there is hope for the next album. When three songs from it have already been written and we all have heard that they are "amazing"!! This should be a time of great joy for all of us!! Right now, of course, we are concentrating on Meat's new album. But there is so much to look forward to in the future. And it would be wonderful if ALL of us could do that together!! Thanks, Heat!! Couldn't agree with ya more!! Love to all, MB xxx

22 May 2003, 14:35	#87
Niné Junior Loafer Join Date: 24.04.2003 Posts: 42	Meat i agree. I saw the show in Amsterdam. And yes it was dynamic and you give everything. And it was funny too. Wait till they come to see a show than they will talk different.

22 May 2003, 16:05	#89
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	Evil Nickname, a lot of what you say is spot on .. although I think it's also fair to say that there are those on the DP board and the Gospel list who take a delight in knocking Meat .. but that isn't the majority. However, when they get going they are pretty mean spirited in what they say. I also stand by what I said which is that I've never heard Meat fans put down Jim .. Meat fans tend to be supportive rather than critical of Meat .. well there's a surprise! Jim fans tend to be the same. And before anyone tells me that they've been critical re DOV .. most blame it's unfortunate demise on everyone else involved in the production .. understandably .. they're Jim fans .. but it goes to show that fans will support their icon. But I'm surprised at people getting their feathers so ruffled at what has been posted in the last few pages .. people have views and opinions and have expressed them .. that seems fair to me .. there has been nothing really vicious .. not since the initial calls to send the reviewer "back to hell where he belongs" . I think there's been more epithets applied to, and harsh words thrown at him than at anybody in this discussion! But I also think Meat's big enough not to be crying into his Starbucks, nor to need this thread locked down :) No-one likes pot shots and half truths/lies aimed at them .. He feels strongly and reacts .. it's called passion .. and it's what makes him the performer he is Someone with his resilience and strength may need our support .. but not our protection. He's a big man .. and he lets off steam with a big rant :)

22 May 2003, 16:07	#90
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	Oh .. and meant to answer your question .. it's CYNICISM .. but you were close

22 May 2003, 16:45	#91
Asha Mega Loafer Join Date: 05.05.2003 Location: Somewhere out there Posts: 1,356	I have been reading this topic for the third time today, and I do not know these Jim forums everybody is talking about (so shoot me, but at the moment I'm not intersted in them) I do know how I would react is someone makes a personal post about me that's not true. I would be mad, and I would most probably make a reply wich would be hurtfull, and in my opinion true. And, yes, it would be something ugly (I have learned through alot of shame not to do it anymore, so I mostly keep my mouth shut) The biggest problem is that the other person would feel hurt, and he/she would be the last person to forgive and forget... I have been hurt more by my own remarks about people then they have, probably. You try and make peace with someone you called something ugly a few minutes earlier, well in my experience, that's not likely to happen. But I have learned that is you say something negative about someone, and you say it constructively, it goes over much better. So, what if I didn't like Jim's way of writing e.g. (I do like his music alot, just an example) I could call him a big ....(Something ugly) for writing this music, or I could say: I do not like you music because I think...(you think of something). Wich would you prefer?? I know wich I would like better. So, if you do not like to keep the peace you would probably say the first, otherwise you would say the latter. So, I like meat's big voice, his energy, his performances, the way he entertains...eventhough i do not like/love every song he ever performed. It also doesn't mean Meat is my live. I also love my family, my Job, you name it. My job is stressfull, dealing with a lot off other peoples hurts..and i like to unwind to good rock music, not only meat's though. So I might not understand what you see in Robbie Williams e.g. I don't dig his music, does it make me less human??? So if someone likes robbie and not meat, does it make them less human?? I do not think so... I might not understand why they like that music, but I can try, and I can accept it for their opinion. I just hope we can all give some constructive critism on this board, and not just say, you are wrong, and I am right, period. That is not a discussion, it's a yes and no game. If you want to speak your mind, and it's not so possitive, fine, go right ahead, but don't go saying to someone, you are this or that, when you do not even know them. If you do not like what i have said, fine, I respect you for that, but don't say to me that I'm wrong, because this is the way I feel, and for me this is true. Anyway I wish all off you a great day, and I hope everybody can let off some steam. Live isn't always fair, but we can make the best of it. Asha

22 May 2003, 18:04	#92
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761	Hi again! William, thanks for continuing the conversation. Good to hear from you! It's morning now in California, so it's not as easy for me to come and write here. My time is usually spent taking care of my elderly parents! But I wanted to take a few moments to respond to your last comments. Sorry that that one section continues to bother you. The last time we talked about it, I tried to share with you what I had meant to say. I can't say more than that. If it wasn't clear in my original post, then I apologize for that. But my last response still stands. That is what I meant. Now, let me take a moment to explain something to you. I am a recent poster here, but have been lurking for 2 to 3 years, coming once or twice a day, reading everyone's posts, feeling as though I was getting to know so many of the wonderful folks at the MLUKFC. But I'm usually the shy type, so it took me a while to get going and I only did that because, after so much time reading everyone's thoughts here, I felt comfortable doing so. But I have also been lurking at the RP message board for that SAME LENGTH OF TIME--at least once a day, sometimes, twice. And I have to admit, it would NEVER be a place I would post to--mostly because of the attitude I have found there from some of the major posters--not everyone, mind you. But some of those who post regularly. I suppose that's another reason I react so strongly, when Meat does on this subject, because for the most part, I, too, have seen what he is talking about! But before you start to respond, unlike him, I do NOT think that everyone there feels that way about him. I have seen some positive posting. And that's why, in my original post to him, I was trying to put some perspective on those numbers. But you know what I have also felt there, William? That people who do NOT feel the same way as these major and frequent message board posters, DO NOT post positive Meat statements to counter the few who are throwing out the negatives so freely!! So, it may be true (and I believe it IS) that not everyone at that board hates or dislikes Meat, but for the most part, those who feel differently, do NOT express those feelings openly. Therefore, it's so easy to walk away from the board believing, as Meat does, that everyone there hates him! I can understand that entirely!! If anyone were to go through the past couple of years' messages there, I think they would see or feel the same thing! Does that make sense, William? I hope so. If you feel differently about Meat, and obviously, from all you have said here, you do, then, would YOU feel comfortable going to the JS board and posting very positive statements about him?? Again, I am NOT being facetious here. I am being serious and straight with you. If you (and some of the others who like Meat) would speak up more readily, more openly than has been seen in the past, that might just make all the difference in the world--to Meat and to all of us who do read that board and have that same sad feeling, after leaving it! And I am truly sorry that you feel you're being mistreated here. I hope that by everyone continuing the discussions as we are right now, things will be better for all who come here and want to share their opinions no matter what they are. Talking to each other like this is always good!! Glad to hear you have the day off there. I hope it continues to be a good one for you!! Asha, what a wonderful message! Thank you SO much for making the point that putting one's point of view in a positive way, is ALWAYS a better way to communicate than sharing the negative side of it!! I couldn't agree more! I used to run a very large website and fan group for another actor--did it for several years. And in the discussion areas of it, because I, myself, was not comfortable with a lot of negative thoughts, I always asked people that if they wanted to disagree with things others had said, to please turn them around and express them positively, sticking to what they FELT, NOT to how they disagreed with someone else. (I'm not sure that's clear--and so I may have William or someone else on me again. ) But in other words, being positive about how one feels is better than just putting someone else down if you don't feel the same as they do!! I couldn't agree more and thank you SO much for making the point!! Well, forgive me. It's breakfast time for two 89-year-olds. So, I have to go downstairs for a while. If you wish to continue the conversation, William (or anyone else) I'll try to be back here later!! Continued love to all of you, MB xxx

22 May 2003, 18:28	#93
Asha Mega Loafer Join Date: 05.05.2003 Location: Somewhere out there Posts: 1,356	Thx MB, I just wanted to say that if you do not agree with someone tell them why you do not agree, don't just say you're wrong. If you wanna tell me that I am and a..s, say: I think you are an a..s and plz tell me why. Don't say to me: You are an a..s. That doesn't go over well, anyway, can't say it different, these kinds of discussions are better when you can look someone in the eye. Asha

22 May 2003, 19:10	#94
Peat Loaf Senior Loafer Join Date: 03.04.2003 Location: Scotland UK Posts: 156	Yeah getting wires crossed seem to have been happening quite a lot these days and people getting the wrong end of the stick I know I have had the hammer come down on me BIG style for something I never did there is nothing worse than being accused of saying and doing things you have not said and done and that is plane to see here but if I can add my bit with a post I put up else where I thinks it appropriate here to so here goes Hi Guys Might as well get in on the act here too the thing with the Steinmeanies is they hate Meat coz he is the one that got all the fame and the biggest accolade from Bat but what they don't seem to get through there thick skulls is yes Jim did put meat on the map so to speak but and a big but at that Meat also put Jim on the map too more infact you see Meat has proved time and time again that he can sing any ones songs and perform them like no one else I have heard other people singing Jim’s songs and even Jim him self example I remember seeing Jim’s own rendition of Rock n Roll Dreams on German TV some years ago but look at that and then Look at Meats version of the same song sorry Jim but there's no comparison. I am over the moon the Meat and Jim are back working together as when they are and all the leaches and scumbags stay out the way there is no better combination as we all (apart from Jim's fanatics which is no bearing on Jim I might add) Know. So if I dare say Big Guy don’t let them get to you bro as we all know what the down is and we don’t care what they say and any way there's more of us than there is of them Pete ps. Just another thing for the Steinmeannies to think about is i don't see any Jim Steinman Tribute Bands out there do you ??? _________________ Another New York waltz at 4 am and the canyons lost at night the citys just a jail for me full high rise prison walls

22 May 2003, 19:18	#95
Oriel Senior Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 161	Oh dear...and yet another hostile attack on us Jim fans. And you think we're bad? Stephen.

22 May 2003, 19:26	#96
Peat Loaf Senior Loafer Join Date: 03.04.2003 Location: Scotland UK Posts: 156	No it is not you (not you personaly) have been attacking Meat for years for the reasons i have said and it's a FACT and beleve me when i tell you there is no one in the world right now that has more reason not to be a Meat Loaf fan than me just now. But at the end of the day what i posted IS the Truth Pete

22 May 2003, 19:49	#98
mariella Mega Loafer Join Date: 04.02.2003 Location: Holland Posts: 4,063	Hi Sinecure, Pete is a Meat Loaf-tribute band/act (I don't really know) from his point of view it's not so strange to think of other tribute bands. I really don't think he was 'attacking' Jim-fans. I don't think we should go on about this, if we do we start comparing and WHY would we do that??? That sort of 'discussion' will not work out for any of us, I think. But it's very good too see what's been happening here today. Thank you! Pete, I really respect the way you talk about Meat, specially with what has happened recently. Just wanted to tell you that. Great day to all of you, Mariella Is it too soon for a 'group-hug'??

22 May 2003, 19:55	#99
dottie queen post- whore extraordinaire Join Date: 29.01.2003 Location: Still Rockin' at "72" Posts: 13,181	Fire Ball if your're still on line just wanted to say - this topic has strayed so much from the original that I started - and I don't like this any more than you do. Thanks by the way for the fabulous show Love dot wigley xxx

22 May 2003, 20:03	#100
Peat Loaf Senior Loafer Join Date: 03.04.2003 Location: Scotland UK Posts: 156	Mariella Said Pete, I really respect the way you talk about Meat, specially with what has happened recently. Just wanted to tell you that. Thank's Mariella but when you have been what i have been though and pulled back by some one you cant just turn feeling like that off like you can a light switch Pete