McDonalds Vs fat gits with no willpower

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Rage Against

I disagree.

Your Will is controlled by your brain. So your WILL power is controlled by your brain.

If you cant control your WILLpower you have a disorder in your mental state of being.

[Rage Against]

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

Your Will is controlled by your brain. So your WILL power is controlled by your brain.

If you cant control your WILLpower you have a disorder in your mental state of being.

Again, I disagree.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Rage Against

Again, I disagree.

dunno how you do... but ok

[Pudding]

Some people don't want to think that they have any kind of mental disorder. With America being the number one country in the world for obesity. Using wikipedia as a quick source for stats (I know it's not 100% reliable but it's close enough) nearly 75% of American adults are either overweight or obese. If you're American and fat that I'm not surprised your brain is pickled into thinking you don't have any kind of mental disorder with your weight, as you'd think being fat IS normal

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Rage Against

Again, I disagree.

I too disagree that lack of willpower, or indeed all obesity is due to "metal disorder". Yes, anorexia (as well as bulimia, which involves bouts of binge eating) are classified as such. But imo not all overweght is the result of binge eating. The current trend for increased obesity in developed countries owes much in my view to many other factors. We take less exercise, our lives are in many cases more sedentary. Food is not scarce, and there is an over-abundance of readily available luxury and convenience foods, all high in sugars and fats. Modern life means we tend to eat, not because we are hungry, but because it's there; because we have established patterns of eating our main meal in the evenings, after which we tend to relax rather than take exercise to use the calories we've consumed. We tend to use public transport or our own cars to get to places, rather than walk or cycle. We are assaulted by advertising, particularly for luxury and convenience foods. Typically we tend to use large dinner plates which encourage poorer portion control; dinner services from the 30s/40s have dinner plates which are the size of modern salad/"breakfast" plates. One thing I've changed is the size plate I use for most of my meals.

Anorexics have been found generally to have a skewed self image in terms of how they perceive their size; they will actually "see" their sillouette as larger (generally much larger) than it is when asked to match it to a variety of shaoes and sizes. Research into people who are overweight has found that sometimes they too perceive a different image, but mainly they don't. They are aware of their size.

People who are seriously overweight, ie clinically obese, are generally aware of it, frequently want to address the issue, but facing a prolonged period of dieting often give up, or put it off; the mountain they have created (in all senses of the word) seems just too large, too daunting to tackle. It is a question of willpower and commitment, but to not be able to harness that for a long haul does not imo mean one has a mental disorder. Foolish yes, and I speak as someone who was just that. But lack of willpower doesn't mean imo that one has a mental disorder, doesn't necessarily need counselling, and anyway to use counselling does not of itself mean one has what is medically termed a mental disorder. All of us are imperfect human beings, all carry some baggage, but that does not mean imo that we all have a "mental disorder" ..

I agree that to remain overweight and not tackle the problem is not helpful for one's long term health; you can argue that it's foolish and irresponsible. But to engage in regular bouts of heavy drinking isn't helpful or responsible either, because that too can have a long term effect on one's health, can get out of control. Some occupations are not (boxing springs to mind, where the objective is to render one's opponent unconscious .. ie deliver a level of brain damage); jockeys will often keep themselves seriously underweight. Smoking is an addiction, but even after successfully giving it up, many still miss the general experience of smoking.

People who are severely clinically obese may become depressed, at which point counselling may be a first step; and I think many overweight people do tend to use food as a "comfort" or "treat" when things go wrong or they're feeling a bit down but not clinically depressed. But mainly I think people who are overweight simply enjoy eating too much of the wrong things without taking sufficient exercise to burn off what they consume (it's a simple mathematical equation after all; if calories consumed exceed caloried burned your body will store the surplus as fat deposits.) And it isn't necessarily that they eat large amounts .. just indulging in the wrong things will do it. They have allowed themselves to pile on weight, often to the point where it becomes such a daunting task to deal with it that they find it difficult to summon up sufficient willpower. I'm not suggesting this is an excuse, simply a reason .. one which is not buried in the psyche .. just in the surplus pounds they carry

I do agree though that obesity has become a significant problem for the countries of plenty, and that the seeds are sown often in childhood .. "clear your plate", poor parenting and diet etc. But to tackle it requires a great deal of willpower, and to find it difficult to exercise the amount required does not imo mean one has a mental disorder, nor does choosing to be overweight to a degree which might not be considered particularly healthy or to fit into today's standards of what looks attractive. You can argue that choice is foolish, but it's not necessarily indicative of mental disorder and an indicator for counselling, which isn't anyway a "fix" .. to be successful it requires choice and commitment from the person being counselled. Imo most overweight people, if they can harness that choice and the level of commitment required can lose weight. Support and encouragement from those around them will help though; and support groups making the same journey can be helpful, so that should they lapse or fall on the journey they are encouraged to get back on the journey rather than abandon it.

Caryl

[Rage Against]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Some people don't want to think that they have any kind of mental disorder. With America being the number one country in the world for obesity. Using wikipedia as a quick source for stats (I know it's not 100% reliable but it's close enough) nearly 75% of American adults are either overweight or obese. If you're American and fat that I'm not surprised your brain is pickled into thinking you don't have any kind of mental disorder with your weight, as you'd think being fat IS normal

Well how can I argue with wikipedia since it is the place for facts.
Again, again, I disagree with you.

[24K]

I watched the last series of America's biggest loser and was absolutely astounded that people allowed themselves to get to 300, 400 over pounds ! Seriously did they not realise at 250 pounds that they had a problem ? They all lost a hell of a lot of weight, basically exercise and less calories, its hardly rocket science. I do however understand that some people are overweight cos they are on certain medications. Some on the show i could see had some mental hang ups, family problems etc, but we all have baggage, it depends how you deal with it i guess.
I would like to say that after i ate a whole bag of family size peanut M and Ms i was seriously anxious. Very odd, but that was my own fault for being a greedy basterd !

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by CarylB

But imo not all overweght is the result of binge eating.

Not all but nearly all. Usually fat people say, it's down to 'their glands' being 'big boned' (that's the funniest excuse ever ), 'low metabolism' or some other pitiful reason the fat person has for not putting down the fork.

I'm slightly overweight because I eat too much and don't do enough exercise, that's a mental disorder on my part because I feel the need to be in the 'clean plate club' I know what needs to be done but don't do it.

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Pudding

I'm slightly overweight because I eat too much and don't do enough exercise, that's a mental disorder on my part because I feel the need to be in the 'clean plate club' I know what needs to be done but don't do it.

I dunno' mental disorder said loudly enough in the states would warrant doctors to sign off on another "disability". I don't see them classifing obesity as a mental disorder. Gross/morbid obesity highly likely. But for joe bloke who was an athlete turned soft, not so much.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by suzieq

I dunno' mental disorder said loudly enough in the states would warrant doctors to sign off on another "disability".

Good point. Some people would probably use any excuse they could find not to work and sponge off the taxpayers, and if being overweight was classed as a 'mental disorder' then BINGO! that's more time for the lazy fat b*stards to sit on their ass and fill their faces with shit.

I wonder what the figure is of people who are claiming benefits that are overweight?, probably quite high I'd imagine.

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Good point. Some people would probably use any excuse they could find not to work and sponge off the taxpayers, and if being overweight was classed as a 'mental disorder' then BINGO! that's more time for the lazy fat b*stards to sit on their ass and fill their faces with shit.

I wonder what the figure is of people who are claiming benefits that are overweight?, probably quite high I'd imagine.

Exactly. And insurance companies here are offering wellness programs because it is cheaper to cover a person who is promoting a lifestyle change vs. monetarily dealing with health claims that are contributed to obesity.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Not all but nearly all.

I referred to "binge eating" which a feature of bulimia, and is not simply eating rather ore than you need in terms of the calories you burn; just as regularly drinking more than is ghood for you is not neessarily "binge drinking". It is compulsive overeating in which people consume huge amounts of food while feeling out of control and powerless to stop, can typically last around two hours. I was distinguishing this from those who just eat more than they burn, and over time it accumulates, resulting in severe overweight. Binge eating involves eating even when you are full, feel uncomfortable but still continue eating. I was severely overweight, but have never binge eaten, though clearly I was taking in more calories than I burned. We may allow this to continue over many years, the weight slowly accumulating.

You refer to "'low metabolism' or some other pitiful reason" .. well it's not an excuse but it is a contributory factor. We do have different metabolic rates, and these tend to slow down as we get older, hence it becomes more of challenge to lose and maintain weight loss. When obesity is treated in hospital they determine the individual's basal metabolic rate, and construct their calorie allowance based on that. It does differ .. not an excuse, but it is one factor which is real. Imo part of losing and maintaining weight loss is to work out what your calorie consumption in the average day is, and accept that you may be able to consume less calories than some others; it may not seem fair, but it's reality. "Bones" only play a part in terms of one's height; if you're 6' you are likely to burn more calories than if you're 5' .. similarly a larger set framed person will burn slightly more than a small-framed one .. but I agree that there are no fat skeletons

I'm slightly overweight because I eat too much and don't do enough exercise, that's a mental disorder on my part because I feel the need to be in the 'clean plate club' I know what needs to be done but don't do it.

We'll need to agree to disagree on that in terms of it being a "mental disorder". It's arguably not particularly healthy and lazy in terms of exercising control, but of itself doesn't imo mean you have a mental disorder .. and like Suzie I think that to determine all those who lack the self-control and discipline to face up to their own weight issues and accept the limit on their daily calorie consumption have a certifiable medical condition is unwise. And not principally because overweight people would "use any excuse they could find not to work and sponge off the taxpayers", but because it tends to remove responsibility from the individual in an area that is really about the choice one makes, and the willpower one can exercise if one chooses.

Caryl

[Sarge]

One aspect hasn't been mentioned yet: money. In past centuries being fat was a symbol of being wealthy, now obesity has become a problem of the lower classes. If you're poor you tend to buy the cheapest food that often contains a lot of sugar and fat and other stuff that's not really healthy.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by CarylB

if you're 6' you are likely to burn more calories than if you're 5' .. similarly a larger set framed person will burn slightly more than a small-framed one

Well I've never seen a fat dwarf.

Originally Posted by Sarge

If you're poor you tend to buy the cheapest food that often contains a lot of sugar and fat and other stuff that's not really healthy.

That's an excuse I've seen why people go to McDonalds and stuff their face, because they're poor, which is complete bullshit. I can feed my family on healthy stuff for a few days on the same amount it would cost to feed them at McDonalds. It's not because they're poor that they eat shit, it's because they're too sodding lazy to cook something decent. And if they're that sodding lazy to cook something decent, then they're probably that lazy to get a job.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Pudding

It's not because they're poor that they eat shit, it's because they're too sodding lazy to cook something decent. And if they're that sodding lazy to cook something decent, then they're probably that lazy to get a job.

I know people who are on welfare and it's damn hard to buy decent food with the amount of money granted to them. As for getting a job, it's not that easy over here. There are far more unemployed people than vacant positions. Let alone the fact that many poor people have a full-time job, but the salary is that low that they aren't better off than those who are on welfare - but that's another issue.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I know people who are on welfare and it's damn hard to buy decent food with the amount of money granted to them.

It isn't hard at all, it's just that most people I know who are on benefits tend to buy shite and things they don't need like cigarettes and alcohol. This is a real bugbear with me, as most of my family in the UK smoke, drink, are fat, lazy, eat complete crap and are on benefits sponging off the taxpayers

[Sarge]

I don't deny that there are people who are just too lazy (or too stupid) to cook, to work or to manage their finances properly and I know that there are people who know how to exploit the welfare system in order to get as much money as possible out of it but I can't stand prejudices. Once a week I see the poor lining up in front of our church for food because they cannot afford to buy food at the supermarket for the whole month. I have even seen people raiding trash cans recently (in this rich country, go figure) - something I had never witnessed before. I guess that's rather due to major changes in the welfare system and the labour market (that forces even skilled workers to work for pittance) - not due to people being lazy.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Once a week I see the poor lining up in front of our church for food because they cannot afford to buy food at the supermarket for the whole month.

Would I be correct in assuming then that these 'poor' people are skinny because they can't afford to eat?

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Would I be correct in assuming then that these 'poor' people are skinny because they can't afford to eat?

I was about to write a detailed response but realized that you're not interested in an objective discussion, you only want to provoke and spread your prejudices. I'm not gonna play that game.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Sarge

One aspect hasn't been mentioned yet: money. In past centuries being fat was a symbol of being wealthy, now obesity has become a problem of the lower classes. If you're poor you tend to buy the cheapest food that often contains a lot of sugar and fat and other stuff that's not really healthy.

I think you've raised an interesting point, and I'm interested in objective discussion.

There's often a tendency for low income families to opt for cheaper convenience foods, say they can't afford to diet because fresh fruit and salad vegetables are too expensive. I believe they're wrong, but it comes back to education, both at school and in the home, and as you say many of the cheaper foods that are readily available and promoted in supermarkets are high in unhealthy ingredients and additives. I make a choice now to eat meat that has been humanely reared, eggs from free range chickens, avoid transfats .. but they cost more than the other options. I eat less meat as a result, but I am also in the fortunate position that I can afford better quality food and do not have to feed a family, and I know how to cook and make the best of what I buy. There's a generation now, many of whom don't know how to do this .. they never learned to, and should not imo be dismissed as lazy, stupid etc They had the education and upbringing they were given. We're not born feckless, stupid, lazy .. we are a product of our upbringing and schooling.

It is possible to eat healthily on a low budget. When I was a student 6 of us shared an old terraced house in the East end of London; no bathroom and an outside loo We had very little money, but we ate healthily. You can provide a nourishing and satisfying stew with cheap vegetables and a small amount of meat or offal .. even an Oxo cube instead of the meat. We even had a cooked breakfast every morning, whether it was an egg, or baked beans on toast. And ox liver was a regular feature on our menu. Casseroled with veg it made a wonderfully rich and tasty meal .. although the texture was like old boot leathers .. But we'd all learned to cook at home from mothers who remembered rationing and food shortages. We had no biscuits, sweets, potato chips etc in the house; they weren't in the budget. Cake was a treat and was made from scratch.

Years later when I had my daughter and as a single mother took unpaid leave for the first 6 months of her life, I as on benefits. After rent, bills etc there was not much left over, but I went back to shopping at street markets, buying the cheapest cuts of meat, picking up things on their sell-by date which were reduced (which I still do today!) etc. It can be done, but if you don't know how to do it it's hard. I've seen families in the poverty trap on benefits buying individual meat pies and frozen chips whilst saying they can't afford to buy healthy food, yet they could cook a healthy meal from scratch for the same money ... if they knew how. They're not all lazy or spongers .. just not educated in how to shop cheaply and cook healthy meals. But living on benefit isn't easy, and generally you don't have much money imo.

Jamie Oliver has changed the way school meals are provided here (he's currently attempting the same thing in the USA), often fighting parents who are keener on their children's "rights" to eat fried foods that they are about their health .. ignorance through poor education again imo. Fact; he needed more money to be spent on the food budget to provide good, healthy food that would attract the kids. Imo that's because kids now grow up in a world where expectations are different, and they expect choice, and the meals have to be really appealing. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's what is .. and to effect change you have to work with what is, not just shout at people, or dismiss them as lazy But if this generation learn to enjoy healthier foods, and are educated on how to do this cheaply, things can change and improve.

A friend of mine had to bring up her family on benefits or low pay for several years. And neither she nor her husband were "lazy gits". Her husband was made redundant during a depression; there were few jobs, he worked when he could, taking jobs that were menial and low paid. They had 4 children, who all needed clothes; she made them. She scoured the markets, still fed her family well, although cheaply. But it was difficult. One daughter was musically gifted .. and as she said "A clarinet doesn't stew up well!" But she too had learned how to put food on the table cheaply from her mother. If you've never been shown how to make a pie from scratch, perhaps never eaten one, it's all too easy to believe the only way is to buy one .. in which case when you have little money you'll turn to the cheapest but worst processed and unhealthy pie to put on the table. But her children learned from her, and when times have been tough they have been able to feed their families well. It's a circle which can be vicious and downward spiralling, or positive and improving.

You can buy a turkey leg for £3 and it will feed a family of 6 for Sunday lunch, albeit frugally .. but you need the education to understand that, and for many years our "domestic science" classes in schools concentrated on making sponge cakes etc rather on how to feed a family nutritious meals on a shoestring. Change needs to happen; it won't happen overnight, but it can start.

And yes, I'm sure some of the people dumpster diving also smoke or drink cheap booze, or may be on drugs. True, some may be homeless because of drink or drugs; but some are not and turn to these options because of the life they've been cast into. Again, not an excuse, but a reason. To be made homeless is an incredible blow to one's ability to act with intelligence. Living in a hostel or bedsit is hardly conducive to taking responsibility for feeding yourself or your family properly; and many people are becoming homeless because of the economy downturn. I do not dismiss them all as scroungers.

Caryl

[daveake]

In case anyone was wondering about the nutritional qualities of a McDonald's meal, take a look at this ...



That's what it looks like after 171 days !!!.

It's obviously not made of anything biodegradable!

[GDW]

Originally Posted by daveake

In case anyone was wondering about the nutritional qualities of a McDonald's meal, take a look at this ...



That's what it looks like after 171 days !!!.

It's obviously not made of anything biodegradable!

Looks good enough to eat. Any takers???

[GDW]

I think the Fries packet and the plate are starting to break down.

[suzieq]

Alongside of the costs of healthy foods and product of environment. The active* family here in the states often would opt for the unhealthier option due to convenience. The other is taste. Some people really just like the taste of unhealthy food.

*by active I mean the family has a lot of things to do in a day and may not include exercising for the adult at times.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by daveake

That's what it looks like after 171 days !!!.

It's obviously not made of anything biodegradable!

This could revolutionise the undertaking trade.
Don't embalm bodies, just stuff em full of mackies.