Please read - Youtube vid comments

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

I have seen them but have not seen the rule retracted. So you are agreeing the rule was a bad one?

Let's just say that we are looking at what our future youtube policy should be.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Let's just say that we are looking at what our future youtube policy should be.

Might i suggest it still would allow some rarities to be posted when myself or others come across them ...... audience shot or not some footage is fantastic to post here given teh correct era

By era I mean: I cant stand horrible audience shot meat loaf videos from current tours cause HD and 1080p is so freaking common.Unless its the only glimpse at a new song available. Footage from lets say 1988 or 1996 is more understandable and fascinating regardless the quality.

What we have is a quality issue.

Unless its a song not posted before, if its terrible quality dont post it if its post 2008. THAT will lead to some disagreements. In fact anything post 2005, pre 2008 gets removed rather quickly anyway regardless.

Personally im the type of person that would drive around listening to Meat live at The Chance in my car. (Meat loaf live recording experts just gasped) Thats how little quality matters to me when it comes to the vintage material.

If its a current performance, lets keep to sharing current quality standards. Unless of course a mobile video of OL&OS pops up... since no footage has surfaced yet!

[Sarge]

@ Mouse:

Just an example why I think that your rule is silly and patronizing (sorry, I just can't find anything positive about it):

When HCTB came out, a forum member criticized Meat's vocals (in a thread dealing with production, as far as remember). The statement was based on a song someone had uploaded to YouTube. Other forum members pointed out that it was obviously sped up and didn't sound like the original recording, thus it wasn't an appropriate source for judging the vocals. What I'm trying to say is: You can well clarify something and void unjust statements in the course of a discussion, you don't need the kind of censorship that you have just introduced. We're adults, not ignorant kids in a kindergarten.

Sorry for not responding to your post(s) in detail. My reply would probably become equally long, trigger another long replay from you and so on - to no avail. This discussion is running in circles.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Wario

Might i suggest it still would allow me rarities to be posted when myself or others come across them ...... audience shot or not some footage is fantastic to post here

Personally, I like the footage being posted here.
I don't often watch it, but I like the fact the fans can have easy access to it on the forum.

It would be a shame to get rid of the youtube vids.

What i've posted though seems to be unacceptable to some forum members, so we'll have to see what happens

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sarge

This discussion is running in circles.

Agreed.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Personally, I like the footage being posted here.
I don't often watch it, but I like the fact the fans can have easy access to it on the forum.

It would be a shame to get rid of the youtube vids.

What i've posted though seems to be unacceptable to some forum members, so we'll have to see what happens

ehh its not unacceptable. I think people are overreading what youve said or read it wrong.

in fact.... id say if anyone who wasa offended by your post reads through this thread theyll understand each side and let it pass.

Be done. you cant be positive without someone being negative. thats how life works.

Now lets are get pizza and debate which tour was better: The Bat 2 tour, The Born To rock Tour, The BBIS Tour, The Hang Cool Tour, or The 1988 LB&GG Tour.

[Sarge]

Missed that post:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

See the 7 comment in the post above.

See my suggestion not to discuss Meat Loaf related topics at all anymore. So there's no possibility of his feelings getting hurt.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

in the spirit of equality, should be both left off the forum

I'm taken aback by how smart that proposal is. One step further on the road of depriving fans of topics they can talk about. Interesting concept of "equality", by the way.

Seriously, you can always find a reason why one shouldn't comment on something, regardless of what it is. What's next? Does this forum still serve a purpose? If yes, what is it?

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Wario

Personally im the type of person that would drive around listening to Meat live at The Chance in my car. (Meat loaf live recording experts just gasped)

More people probably gasped that someone has allowed you to drive.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by CarylB

And some people may well be able to consider they can judge a performance from a distorted video .. some may even be able to. Some in my view cannot. I have been to shows where Meat has sounded great, and seen bootlegs in which you could barely hear him, or were so distorted his voice sounded woolly or cracked .. but I know it was not, because I was there.

I will grant you that there are some poor quality recordings out there, but there are also some that are good enough, and I like to think that I'm able to separate quality of a recording versus performance. There are some people on another board which I frequent who have argued that you can NOT in fact judge a performance totally fairly when you are there because of the emotion involved and the experience of being there. I'm not saying I agree totally, because I mostly don't, but I think there is some amount of merit in it.

Originally Posted by CarylB

And I know his voice is not always perfect, he occasionally fluffs a note, is not quite on pitch for a moment or two. As of course does he, without any added help from me. I simply don't spend time concentrating on that, but rather on the vast majority of his performance which was without fault. Those who hear it live and want to concentrate on or highlight the few imperfections, that's their choice.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't stand there at a show with a scorecard either, and frankly, I'm a little insulted that you think some of us are that shallow. I tend to go with my overall impressions and gut feelings, and even those I don't feel free to share, because honestly, I think some people here really don't want to read them, no matter how well-intentioned or carefully I word them.

[stretch37]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Accept it for what it is.

If you like the footage that's posted on youtube, great. Share how much you like it.

If you do not like the footage, keep in mind it's quality, and that is unfair (in the most literal sense of the word) to negatively comment on Meat's performance based entirely on what you've seen on youtube.
In fairness and out of respect, we would ask that any negative comments prompted by unofficial camera phone footage be kept off the forum.

It's something that has repeatedly annoyed Meat in the past (helping to create the red pony), and caused many arguments on the forum.

Forgot to say I do agree with this, only because it will help keep the videos up there, and it helps me feel better as a fan seeing a healthy discussion rather than it travelling down the "my favorite artist's voice sucks today" route.....which really pisses me off! If you don't like him then why the ~~~~ are you here.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I will grant you that there are some poor quality recordings out there, but there are also some that are good enough, and I like to think that I'm able to separate quality of a recording versus performance.

I have not suggested you are not able to do so. As I said, some may consider they can, some may well be able to, some imo cannot.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't stand there at a show with a scorecard either, and frankly, I'm a little insulted that you think some of us are that shallow.

I'm sorry if you choose to feel insulted, but powerless to prevent your choices But what I said was:
And I know his voice is not always perfect, he occasionally fluffs a note, is not quite on pitch for a moment or two ... I simply don't spend time concentrating on that, but rather on the vast majority of his performance which was without fault.

No mention of score cards at all, nor even the suggestion they were kept. I do not consider you shallow .. nor do I generally consider people who are hyper-critical shallow. Negative sometimes, half-empty glasses perhaps, thoughtless in how they word their criticism on occasions, and sometimes apparently irritated by those of us who post positive reviews, which concentrate on the vast majority of a performance we love, rather than feeing any need to point out the (often very few) imperfections.

I was referring to focus in terms both experiencing the shows, and of posting reviews and "critiques" of them when I, like others, come here afterwards and review/recount my experiences. I remember the discussion (the year before last?) on a thread which opened by calling for more criticism in reviews .. more "balance". Like others, my positive reviews were dismissed, and at times ridiculed, as not objective, not "helpful" in aiding someone decide whether a show was worth going to, a responsibility I see no need to accept. My reviews have been parodied, words and phrases are taken and popped on threads, presumably in attempts to flame a response. Now if you want shallow .. look no further

But my stance was for those who want to identify imperfections that's their choice. Mine is to concentrate on all that worked superbly. That's not deep, any more than those who want to make sure they cover the flaws are shallow. They and those who, like me, post positive reviews simply operate from different hilltops.

Caryl

[AndrewG]

Show respect towards Meat is all fine and well but I think we should also show some respect towards people who can only see Meat on YouTube as they can't afford to go to the shows or simply live too far away to see him OR on occasions have tried to go and the show has been cancelled. YouTube may be all they have and I value such opinions too. Of course going to shows in person is always better but I think we shouldn't close the door on people having a say just because how they can view/listen to Meat is somewhat limited, ie "your opinion sucks as it is based on YouTube videos only". This seems a bit disturbing to me.

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Speaking of "missing the point": The rule states that you must not post your opinion on a YouTube video unless it's favorable.

As for the room thing - bad comparison. This is a website on which fans discuss Meat Loaf. It's neither his "room" nor one in which he's permanently present. It's a community he decided to become a member of. I'm also surprised that you favor lying to people, especially since it comes to someone you adore. Flattery only makes sense if it's honest flattery, otherwise it's deception.

Err no actually Mouse was trying to say be fair when posting you didn't think much of the youtube video because the quality of the sound may not do Meat justice, he never said you couldn't say you wasn't keen on it, just to bear in mind the quality of the recording and be respectful. How many more times?

The room thing is not bad, it's relevant. Like it or not Meat comes here and reads what we say. That you don't seem to give a damn whether he is here or not and what is said says a lot about you and your supposed like for Meat. Perhaps you think Meat himself should be banned so he doesn't get offended by the stupid thoughtless comments people make? Perhaps you think this should just be a general music forum? Well guess what, IT'S NOT. This IS a Meat Loaf forum, it's HIS name at the top, and he has EVERY right to come here and not be upset by thoughtless mindless idiotic comments that people wouldn't make if they cared about him even just a little bit.

Finally you can shove off about lying to people instead of being honest. How would saying, it wasn't his best performance be lying? I expected more intelligence from you

If you're not keen on something fine say it, but you need to respect the feelings of the artist who comes here. There's never any need to go further than saying it wasn't his strongest performance but he gave it his all. Would we go further if he wasn't here? Probably yes, but as he is and we care for him we HAVE to think about what we say, just like you would do with any close friend or family member. In my opinion the only time to EVER go into detail over one of Meats performances is if he asks you himself. If you are so desperate to go into details of Meats performance or want to say really strong words about it then you can always PM other members too as Meat won't see that and that way you would be showing him some care and consideration at least.

[lyn]

Originally Posted by Lucy!

Unfortunately the "rules" laid out in the You Tube thread that's just emerged make the above impossible, and seeing as that's a closed thread I apologise for having to post that here in the show thread.

I hope everyone had a great time and there were cowboy hats a plenty for Meat's night in Texas. Stay safe on your travels everyone.

Yes the damn threads get closed before everybody gets to see them. I think amature stuff like do it yourself YT films should be barred from here imho. We all know really bad negativity comes from these from the same people. Meat doesn't want to read the really negative a hurtful rubbish. Imo, if films are to be posted here then they should either be your own or professional, at least then it may cut out some of the really negative comments.

[AndrewG]

Who decides what is a professional / good enough quality YouTube video? Is a super high quality with Meat in bad voice allowed? Is a rubbish video in which Meat sounds amazing allowed? If I can Google a YT vid of Meat at a specific show, why isn't it allowed to be posted here? It makes no sense.

The videos of Meat at the SHOF were pretty poor quality yet everyone loved them.

[lyn]

Originally Posted by razorball2002

I wasnt talking or judging the quality of a youtube video, just expressing my feelings about Meats voice at that concert (you don't need a high-rez video in order to judge it, nor a tricked official live dvd). Sorry I hurt your feelings, or because of your fears that band members might actually see this, I got deleted. It wont happen again!

Look this seems to be the age old stick of dynamite that blows up the whole of a thread, and seems to be a usual target on here, and that is the criticism of Meats voice. Please people, Meat does come and read the threads, or have we forgotten that??? Common courtesy should be shown

[lyn]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Who decides what is a professional / good enough quality YouTube video? Is a super high quality with Meat in bad voice allowed? Is a rubbish video in which Meat sounds amazing allowed? If I can Google a YT vid of Meat at a specific show, why isn't it allowed to be posted here? It makes no sense.

The videos of Meat at the SHOF were pretty poor quality yet everyone loved them.

I can see your point AndrewG, and understand entirely, but it is these YT vidoes that are causing issues here. If we are to all post criticism about a video, then it should be done with respect and consideration of Meat. But the problem here Andrew is that never seems to happen. It blows out of proportion then threads are closed etc, etc. Yes it'd be nice to think that people could post any YT footage here as long as all issues stated at the start of the thread are considered.

[PanicLord]

Originally Posted by robgomm

Like it or not Meat comes here and reads what we say. That you don't seem to give a damn whether he is here or not and what is said says a lot about you and your supposed like for Meat. Perhaps you think Meat himself should be banned so he doesn't get offended by the stupid thoughtless comments people make? Perhaps you think this should just be a general music forum? Well guess what, IT'S NOT. This IS a Meat Loaf forum, it's HIS name at the top, and he has EVERY right to come here and not be upset by thoughtless mindless idiotic comments that people wouldn't make if they cared about him even just a little bit.

If you're not keen on something fine say it, but you need to respect the feelings of the artist who comes here. There's never any need to go further than saying it wasn't his strongest performance but he gave it his all. Would we go further if he wasn't here? Probably yes, but as he is and we care for him we HAVE to think about what we say, just like you would do with any close friend or family member. In my opinion the only time to EVER go into detail over one of Meats performances is if he asks you himself. If you are so desperate to go into details of Meats performance or want to say really strong words about it then you can always PM other members too as Meat won't see that and that way you would be showing him some care and consideration at least.

Yes, 100% agree, well said

[lyn]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Thank you for proving my point

You don't like the performance, yet you didn't see it.

All you have seen is some camera phone footage.

As I maintain, people who love a performance due to a badly shot clip may not be basing their opinion on the best media, but liking it is not likely to hurt Meat's feelings whereas saying his voice isn't as powerful (based on that self same badly shot clip) is something that would cause upset.

Isn't Meat worthy of that small consideration?
Really?

Finally! Someone with some balls and some common sense that can actually point out the flaming obvious that should be followed on all threads! To like or dislike a clip or what ever is ok, but whereas saying things like his voice isn't as powerful etc, is hurtful to Meat. We should remember 3 vital points here: (1) Commonsense, (2) Respect and (3) Courtesy. Follow those and everything should be fine and dandy :)

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by stretch37

"my favorite artist's voice sucks today" route.....which really pisses me off! If you don't like him then why the ~~~~ are you here.

No one said that Meat Loaf's voice "sucked" and why do you keep on claiming that someone who is disappointed with a particular thing Meat Loaf does does "not like him". This daft allegation (straw man) is brought up by you and others again and again. It's getting old. Come up with something else for a change.

Originally Posted by robgomm

Err no actually Mouse was trying to say be fair when posting you didn't think much of the youtube video [...]

No he wasn't, otherwise we wouldn't have this thread dedicated to a a controversial rule. It's funny how you repeatedly refer to something that doesn't exist, LOL. You're right, that really deserves a facepalm - probably more than one.

Originally Posted by robgomm

That you don't seem to give a damn whether he is here or not and what is said says a lot about you and your supposed like for Meat. Perhaps you think Meat himself should be banned [...] Perhaps you think this should just be a general music forum?

Have you run out of arguments or why do you resort to stupid, offensive allegations again? None of my posts imply any of the things you accuse me of.

Originally Posted by robgomm

I expected more intelligence from you

Says the guy who argues in the way I referred to above.

Originally Posted by robgomm

If you are so desperate to go into details of Meats performance or want to say really strong words about it then you can always PM other members too as Meat won't see that and that way you would be showing him some care and consideration at least.

How do I know what user A thinks if he/she only sends his/her thoughts to his/her buddy user B via PM? Unlike you, I'm interested in what others think, even if I don't like what they say. Who are you to think that you can define who must and who must not express their opinion in public? The purpose of this forum is that fans discuss topics related to a particular artist. It's a place for fans in general, not only for fans who always gush over everything Meat Loaf says or does. Yeah, send everybody whose posts you don't like over to the dark corner where they don't bother you. Astonishing what kind of suggestions I have to read more than 20 years after the collapse of communist Germany. I wonder why I still bother to respond to some people. Waste of time.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I was referring to focus in terms both experiencing the shows, and of posting reviews and "critiques" of them when I, like others, come here afterwards and review/recount my experiences. [...]

But my stance was for those who want to identify imperfections that's their choice. Mine is to concentrate on all that worked superbly.

But that's my point, Caryl; perhaps I'm not articulating it clearly. I'm not talking about nitpicky things like a missed note here and there- that's what I'm referring to when I say "shallow". I don't go to any show looking for imperfections. I am talking about the entire experience, and maybe my experience is different than someone else's. But, as I said, I think some people don't really want to know what I think/ feel.

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by lyn

It blows out of proportion then threads are closed etc, etc.

There in lies the major issue, the tour review threads should provide forum members with a history of Meat Loaf shows and the mod team try to ensure that these threads are kept as close to on topic as they can for this purpose and NOT to appease any particular forum member who may be browsing.

Whenever there's a tour the mod team can guarantee arguments over the same old subjects time and time again and you won't win any prize for guessing what the most common trigger to the arguments is, youtube videos.

My personal opinion is that the youtube vids shouldn't be posted in the tour section, 1) the arguments they constantly cause just ruin the threads and bring out the worse in people and 2) they just give Red Pony a reason to go galloping through the vids on youtube and get them deleted. You want to watch a vid from a show, watch it on youtube, like someone posted earlier google is your friend.

[Tri.somethin]

Read all 96 responses...and all I have to say is WOW. What a load of BS from everyone. Post the vids, delete posts as you see fit...

TL;DR...KEEP CALM, CARRY ON!

[stretch37]

Originally Posted by Sarge

No one said that Meat Loaf's voice "sucked" and why do you keep you on claiming that someone who is disappointed with a particular thing Meat Loaf does does "not like him". This daft allegation (straw man) is brought up by you and others again and again. It's getting old. Come up with something else for a change.

lol, I'm not "coming up" with anything, but thanks for the suggestion.

Let me explain the idea more clearly. When people who are a member of a "FAN" club for an artist they are "FASCINATED" by start commenting on the rather poor quality of Meat Loaf's voice and the less-than-favourable performance he is giving, it is a stark contrast to people who ARE fans of the CURRENT Meat Loaf - not the 1980's version - Who consistently love, enjoy and praise his live performances. ESPECIALLY those who actually ~~~~ing attended the gig.

So yes Sarge, and anyone else on here who is going to shit on this once its posted, it is an insult that you come on his fan club and tell fans who love and adore his voice and were at the concert and heard an amazing performance, that based on a crappy cellphone youtube clip, you think he sounds terrible. Its just plain STUPID! get it?

[Monstro]

Calm down Stretch or I'm going to be up all night taking the expletives out of your posts