Question to Steinman fans - Page 4

rockfenris2005 · 16 Jan 2006, 08:40

Stephen, would you relax for Christ sake's! Don't take everything so personally. Meat Loaf doesn't even know you, has never even met you, knows nothing about you. It's not the end of the world FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Just, simply, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD IN GENERAL, WOULD YOU CALM DOWN AND NOT TAKE EVERYTHING SO PERSONALLY. Ug! You remind me of me in my younger years and I just want to slap you for it! LOL

In response to Fireball. Sonenberg is a manipulative man. He has been controlling Jim Steinman for thirty years. He was Meat Loaf's manager, and called him a big-shot, and went throuhg hell to secure the BAT deal. Then he was responsible for removing Steinman's credit. Meat Loaf wanted it back, pleading in tears on the telephone (just read Jim's interviews. Meat was more distrought than Jim was). Sonenberg wouldn't change it. And that small decision, thanks to the success of that album, ruined Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman for many years.

If Jim had of taken equal credit, as intended, Meat wouldn't have felt he was all alone: and he would never gone insane. Jim would have had more opportunities to be noticed for the great work he's doine. To this day, no one gives a f-uck that Steinman wrote those albums, and that to me is like saying no one gives a f-uck that Shakespeare wrote Hamlet. It's a tragedy. A musical tragedy.

Sonenberg, yes, convinced Steinman away from Meat. Steinman, blind as he can be, listened. The same thing happened with Pandora's Box and Bat 2. Sonenberg betrayed him for the final time with DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES, and Steinman sacked him. Now Steinman is back with Sonenberg, and curious how Steinman is not involved with Bat 3...

Maybe Sonenberg has an indestructible mission to make it up to Jim, to make it known that he's not just the guy behind Meat Loaf. Maybe I should admire that. But that man is the singular responsible reason for all the shit in the last 25 years. And no one gets over an $85 million lawsuit

CASE DISMISSED!

AndrewG · 16 Jan 2006, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfenris2005

To this day, no one gives a f-uck that Steinman wrote those albums, and that to me is like saying no one gives a f-uck that Shakespeare wrote Hamlet. It's a tragedy. A musical tragedy.

I personally do think Steinman has been given quite a bit of credit for writing these songs, much more than the average songwriter IMHO. I ain't saying he's had enough, just saying that there is quite a bit of recognition what he's done and who he has written songs for etc.

rockfenris2005 · 16 Jan 2006, 12:59

Compaired to a lot of songwriters, Jim isn't that known. Most people, most rock and roll fans, recognize the work of Leiber & Stoller: and the legacy they left behind. Most Motown fans are familiar with the songwriter of Holland & Dozier. Most pop fans, and most people actually, have heard the work of Diane Warren & Desmond Child: all over the radio for the last ten years. Most people, most people who care, know that they wrote those songs. As a matter of fact, most songwriters are more recognized than Jim Steinman. He's probably mostly known for Bat Out of Hell and Total Eclipse of the Heart.

My issue is: Jim could have been a lot more known for Bat Out of Hell, which would have changed things. But Sonenberg altered the credit; what started as a unique collaboration between Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman became Meat Loaf in the leading role and Steinman as the unseen director. I've read interviews, from both Meat and Jim, stating how badly this ended up affecting them. This may even be partially responsible for the friction behind the Bat today. Jim isn't known as much as you think is.

Sure, he's had some astonishing hits, but walk up to a person and they probavbly wouldn't have heard of him. However, if the original credit had of been on Bat they would know him as much as Meat Loaf. But that's not the case. Even most musicians would know him, after Diane Warren, Desmond Child and all the others I mentioned.

Jim isn't that well known, to regular people, but there have been many opportunities and chances where he could have been.

rockfenris2005 · 16 Jan 2006, 13:08

These comments pretty much sum up my points:

ROB EVAN: "It’s funny, because if you ask people up and down the street if they know Jim, half look at you blankly, and then you mention Total Eclipse or Bat, and 10 out of 10 say yes, absolutely. They’ve heard them and have great memories of these songs..."

STEVE RINKOFF: "...Holding Out for a Hero, Total Eclipse of the Heart, Making Love Out of Nothing at All, I’d Do Anything for Love, But I Won’t Do That, because everyone knows these songs. Now though, Jim is also getting the credit he deserves. We’re trying to get across who Jim Steinman is, and that he’s not just a writer, he’s an artist. It’s not just like he writes it and hands it off – he’s the Dr. Frankenstein and we’re all the monsters. When Jim finds someone to write for, it’s not just like finding a singer to sing his songs. He gets to know a singer, and to know their voices..." etc.

Bart · 16 Jan 2006, 15:00

So MEAT is not singing BfG on the next album. It's history.
And Steinman IS involved with the next album. I still don't see why he is not.

Space Monkey · 17 Jan 2006, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding

Well they do say laughter is the best medicine

Pud

Ignore this if you're diabetic. Insulin is a better idea.

Steve6 · 17 Jan 2006, 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfenris2005

My issue is: Jim could have been a lot more known for Bat Out of Hell, which would have changed things. .

Not true Ryan,

The album has sold over 35 million copies, anybody who knows there stuff about music will know Jim Steinman wrote BOOH.
We can quite easily give Todd Rundgren and Jim Steinman credit for BOOH but people never say anything about what Roy Bittan done for it. Which was alot.

Pudding · 17 Jan 2006, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve6

but people never say anything about what Roy Bittan done for it. Which was alot.

Which is what exactly, apart from playing the piano?

Pud

Steve6 · 17 Jan 2006, 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding

Which is what exactly, apart from playing the piano?

Pud

He got credited for creative assistance on BOOH, but that was all and it only says it in small writing in the BOOH booklet.
So he done more for it then people may think.

Pudding · 17 Jan 2006, 02:29

So what sort of credit do you think he deserves, in what form where? I'm sure he got paid well.

Pud

Steve6 · 17 Jan 2006, 02:40

Emmmmm.........You have a point there

. But I'm sure everyone else did too.

As for what credit I think he should have got. Well he should have been mentioned on "Classic albums: "Bat out of hell" which he did'nt.
But Jim Steinman, Meat Loaf, Todd Rundgren got plenty of credit on it.

rockfenris2005 · 17 Jan 2006, 06:50

OK. Stephen...

Try and answer this. Get out a copy of BAT OUT OF HELL or BAT OUT OF HELL II. Study the covers for (about) 5 seconds...

In blazing capitols, larger-than-life, is a name that reads "MEAT LOAF". Underneath is a similarly large title that reads "BAT OUT OF HELL". Not as large as the Meat Loaf, but large enough.

Then take a scroll down the page, like a bomb falling through the air, and you'll find a name (literally) in the midst of an explosion. In tiny capitol letters it reads... SONGS BY JIM STEINMAN. Some albums don't even have this credit.

Originally, it was to read: in large blazing capitol letters: MEAT LOAF & JIM STEINMAN, BAT OUT OF HELL. With, preferably, PRODUCED BY TODD RUNDGREN in big enough letters underneath.

It's the same deal with BAT OUT OF HELL II.

On the 25th Anniversary CD there's been a slight correction: which would have been good enough to use in 1977 (but noooooooooo they didn't LOL)

It reads, better than it was, but not how it should have been:

MEAT LOAF
BAT OUT OF HELL
SONGS BY JIM STEINMAN

Walk up to a person and say "BAT OUT OF HELL". What's the first name that springs to their head? MEAT LOAF.

Walk up to a person and say "BAT OUT OF HELL" and they'd probably 80% guarantee never mention the name of the man who write all its songs: and without that man's help there wouldn't have BEEN a BAT album. Some people seem to forget that. Some people seem to forget that Jim is partially responsible for that album, and while he's enjoyed success and accolades from it, people remember the singer's name and not the songwriter. This is only wrong because Meat and Jim were doing this together; not Meat Loaf or a record company paying a songwriter. This was against all the rules, but it was changed.

Even I, when I first brought BAT 2, said: "who the hell is Jim Steinman?"

Sad...

AndrewG · 17 Jan 2006, 10:00

But this whole credit thing is the same all over. If you think Mission Impossible you think Tom Cruise, you don't necessarily think Brian dePalma and John Woo. Usually acting is probably one of the least intesive jobs making movies, while producers and directors will have endless working days. If you want to write songs you might not get famous for singing them, it's quite simple. I mean who the hell can remember all the songwriters for Elvis Presley who helped to make him famous. It's the same shit all round man.

I also think Meat has to work a lot harder on stage than many people realise to save his reputation.

rockfenris2005 · 18 Jan 2006, 02:59

Yeah, but Meat's a better person than all those Hollywood goons. If he was more ruthless he'd get more parts on film, IMO.

Meat has always tried to communicate Steinman's contributions, and that makes it different from everything else. Lieber and Stoller wrote a lot of Elvis songs, but you didn't see their credit at the bottom of the album. Also, some of the biggest stars of stage and screen were in Star Wars, and we all know that George Lucas was responsible for that.

Steinman deserved more recognition because it was an "exception to the rule". It was originally a duo, and not just a songwriter being paid to write for a 300-pound singer

rick · 18 Jan 2006, 03:12

As fireball said it's all history .so why drag up old dirt and re-open old wound's
what matter's is that people are credited accordingly for their contribution's
however large or small, song writer to bottle washer they all deserve a mention
this is show bizz folk's .the music industry is a fickle thing.
I would assume that if it was "jim stienman's bat III" and in small letter's hidden at the bottom "sung by meat loaf",i wouldn't sell half as many as if it were the other way round.
that's the way marketing work's lead, with your strongest name
at the end of the day it is more than likely out of meat's hand's anyway !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding
Well they do say laughter is the best medicine

Pud

space monkey wrote:

Quote:

Ignore this if you're diabetic. Insulin is a better idea.

nah novacaine is realy good

**The Flying Mouse** · 18 Jan 2006, 03:23

This argument is as old as the album itself.
What happened happened.
Meat got over it and so did Jimmy.
All the animosity was left behind a long time ago.
It was a joint effort, and the highlight of both careers IMHO.

As already been said, how many song writters are named on the front of an album cover?

Meat once said that Jimmy makes him a better singer, and he makes Jimmy a better writter.

I agree with that.

But that isn't to say that (no disrespect to either here) that Meat should be given songwritting credits, or Jimmy should be given credits above what he did on the album.

Yes, to his credit (and as Jimmy acknowledges, to his credit (ever feel your goin round in circles to make sure that your a$$ is covered on every word you say?

) ) Meat pushed for more recognition for Jimmy, but Bat was sold on the focal point of the lead singer.Some people can live with that, some can't, but the ONLY TWO PEOPLE this should concern have put this issue to rest a long time ago.

This was a joint effort, and the people who matter know and acknowledge the parts played by two heavyweight talents who are the best in their line in creating a musical masterpiece.

**The Flying Mouse** · 18 Jan 2006, 03:24

Right.
Thread LOCKED while I clear this up

**The Flying Mouse** · 18 Jan 2006, 03:36

OK few select posts thrown in the bin.

Reasons for this (aand which I wish posters to bear in mind for future posts on this thread).......

1.Going off topic.This is (I think

) a discussion about Meat and Jimmy.It's not a discussion about copying, pasting, wallpapering, quilt making, or anything else.
Stay on topic please.

2.A reminder, arguments that start off these forums, STAY OFF THESE FORUMS.
Information is always welcome, but posting peoples posts from other boards onto these forums is a no no.
PERIOD.

3.No personal attacks.
Simmer down.

Thread opened FOR DISCUSSION again.

Jaymze · 18 Jan 2006, 13:51

From a marketing stand point and from the general audience's point of view- not mine, they don't really care who wrote the songs, all they want to do is take home the CD and listen to it. If you get upset over Steinmans name not being as big as Meat's on the CD than what about all those artists whose song writers names aren't on the CD cover at all? Do you think Elton John fans get mad that his lyric writers name's not on the cover of his CD's? Or Whitney Houston's song writers name's not on the cover of her CD's?
As a matter of fact I was watching University Challenge and one of the questions was 'who is the self-titled prince of darkness and writer of the BOOH albums?' to which someone replied 'Jim Steinway' which was close I suppose.

AndrewG · 18 Jan 2006, 13:57

I agree Jaymze. I think there are a lot of writers who don't get much credit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymze

As a matter of fact I was watching University Challenge and one of the questions was 'who is the self-titled prince of darkness and writer of the BOOH albums?' to which someone replied 'Jim Steinway' which was close I suppose.

Next question:
Who was the producer:

---uuuh, toddler rundgren?

Louise · 18 Jan 2006, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

It was todd who was the real genius behind Bat 1,

I thought the "genius" side of music comes from writing beautiful, meaningful lyrics along with the music? ie the the base of the entire concept. Jim's songs make you stop in your tracks and listen, unlike throwaway pop rubbish we get now. Todd is a great producer. and made Bat sound good, but he was hardly the "genius" behind it all. The entire album is successful due the combination of lyrics/music, production and the singer. To single Todd out because he twiddled a few knobs hardly seems fair...

My two pennyworth

Louise x

Jaymze · 18 Jan 2006, 16:41

To be fair I'm sure that if Dead Ringer had either Steinman or Todd in production with Meat at the helm it would have been a smash- leaving it to Meat to produce, who at the time had little production skill when compared to now was obviously a mistake. However I still think Steinman is the real genius out of him and Rundgren- look at how he has an ear for success i.e Bonnie Tyler and Celine Dion. Plus we can hardly credit Anything For Love to Rundgren- that is the best written and recorded song I've ever heard.

Louise · 18 Jan 2006, 16:45

well said!

Louise x

Bart · 18 Jan 2006, 17:25

I think Dead Ringer has the most amazing piano arrangements.
The basic tracks were produced by Steinman.
The album is dated but the songs are phenomenal. There is nothing wrong with another Dead Ringer.

**The Flying Mouse** · 18 Jan 2006, 18:26

I think Dead Ringer kicks serious A$$

17 Jan 2006, 02:40	#86
Steve6 Batman Join Date: 28.11.2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,690	Emmmmm.........You have a point there . But I'm sure everyone else did too. As for what credit I think he should have got. Well he should have been mentioned on "Classic albums: "Bat out of hell" which he did'nt. But Jim Steinman, Meat Loaf, Todd Rundgren got plenty of credit on it. Last edited by Steve6; 17 Jan 2006 at 02:51.

18 Jan 2006, 13:51	#94
Jaymze Super Loafer Join Date: 10.12.2003 Location: Sunderland Posts: 265	Jim Steinway From a marketing stand point and from the general audience's point of view- not mine, they don't really care who wrote the songs, all they want to do is take home the CD and listen to it. If you get upset over Steinmans name not being as big as Meat's on the CD than what about all those artists whose song writers names aren't on the CD cover at all? Do you think Elton John fans get mad that his lyric writers name's not on the cover of his CD's? Or Whitney Houston's song writers name's not on the cover of her CD's? As a matter of fact I was watching University Challenge and one of the questions was 'who is the self-titled prince of darkness and writer of the BOOH albums?' to which someone replied 'Jim Steinway' which was close I suppose.

16 Jan 2006, 08:40	#76
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	Stephen, would you relax for Christ sake's! Don't take everything so personally. Meat Loaf doesn't even know you, has never even met you, knows nothing about you. It's not the end of the world FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Just, simply, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD IN GENERAL, WOULD YOU CALM DOWN AND NOT TAKE EVERYTHING SO PERSONALLY. Ug! You remind me of me in my younger years and I just want to slap you for it! LOL In response to Fireball. Sonenberg is a manipulative man. He has been controlling Jim Steinman for thirty years. He was Meat Loaf's manager, and called him a big-shot, and went throuhg hell to secure the BAT deal. Then he was responsible for removing Steinman's credit. Meat Loaf wanted it back, pleading in tears on the telephone (just read Jim's interviews. Meat was more distrought than Jim was). Sonenberg wouldn't change it. And that small decision, thanks to the success of that album, ruined Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman for many years. If Jim had of taken equal credit, as intended, Meat wouldn't have felt he was all alone: and he would never gone insane. Jim would have had more opportunities to be noticed for the great work he's doine. To this day, no one gives a f-uck that Steinman wrote those albums, and that to me is like saying no one gives a f-uck that Shakespeare wrote Hamlet. It's a tragedy. A musical tragedy. Sonenberg, yes, convinced Steinman away from Meat. Steinman, blind as he can be, listened. The same thing happened with Pandora's Box and Bat 2. Sonenberg betrayed him for the final time with DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES, and Steinman sacked him. Now Steinman is back with Sonenberg, and curious how Steinman is not involved with Bat 3... Maybe Sonenberg has an indestructible mission to make it up to Jim, to make it known that he's not just the guy behind Meat Loaf. Maybe I should admire that. But that man is the singular responsible reason for all the shit in the last 25 years. And no one gets over an $85 million lawsuit CASE DISMISSED!

16 Jan 2006, 12:59	#78
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	Compaired to a lot of songwriters, Jim isn't that known. Most people, most rock and roll fans, recognize the work of Leiber & Stoller: and the legacy they left behind. Most Motown fans are familiar with the songwriter of Holland & Dozier. Most pop fans, and most people actually, have heard the work of Diane Warren & Desmond Child: all over the radio for the last ten years. Most people, most people who care, know that they wrote those songs. As a matter of fact, most songwriters are more recognized than Jim Steinman. He's probably mostly known for Bat Out of Hell and Total Eclipse of the Heart. My issue is: Jim could have been a lot more known for Bat Out of Hell, which would have changed things. But Sonenberg altered the credit; what started as a unique collaboration between Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman became Meat Loaf in the leading role and Steinman as the unseen director. I've read interviews, from both Meat and Jim, stating how badly this ended up affecting them. This may even be partially responsible for the friction behind the Bat today. Jim isn't known as much as you think is. Sure, he's had some astonishing hits, but walk up to a person and they probavbly wouldn't have heard of him. However, if the original credit had of been on Bat they would know him as much as Meat Loaf. But that's not the case. Even most musicians would know him, after Diane Warren, Desmond Child and all the others I mentioned. Jim isn't that well known, to regular people, but there have been many opportunities and chances where he could have been.

16 Jan 2006, 13:08	#79
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	These comments pretty much sum up my points: ROB EVAN: "It’s funny, because if you ask people up and down the street if they know Jim, half look at you blankly, and then you mention Total Eclipse or Bat, and 10 out of 10 say yes, absolutely. They’ve heard them and have great memories of these songs..." STEVE RINKOFF: "...Holding Out for a Hero, Total Eclipse of the Heart, Making Love Out of Nothing at All, I’d Do Anything for Love, But I Won’t Do That, because everyone knows these songs. Now though, Jim is also getting the credit he deserves. We’re trying to get across who Jim Steinman is, and that he’s not just a writer, he’s an artist. It’s not just like he writes it and hands it off – he’s the Dr. Frankenstein and we’re all the monsters. When Jim finds someone to write for, it’s not just like finding a singer to sing his songs. He gets to know a singer, and to know their voices..." etc.

16 Jan 2006, 15:00	#80
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	So MEAT is not singing BfG on the next album. It's history. And Steinman IS involved with the next album. I still don't see why he is not.

17 Jan 2006, 02:29	#85
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	So what sort of credit do you think he deserves, in what form where? I'm sure he got paid well. Pud

17 Jan 2006, 06:50	#87
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	OK. Stephen... Try and answer this. Get out a copy of BAT OUT OF HELL or BAT OUT OF HELL II. Study the covers for (about) 5 seconds... In blazing capitols, larger-than-life, is a name that reads "MEAT LOAF". Underneath is a similarly large title that reads "BAT OUT OF HELL". Not as large as the Meat Loaf, but large enough. Then take a scroll down the page, like a bomb falling through the air, and you'll find a name (literally) in the midst of an explosion. In tiny capitol letters it reads... SONGS BY JIM STEINMAN. Some albums don't even have this credit. Originally, it was to read: in large blazing capitol letters: MEAT LOAF & JIM STEINMAN, BAT OUT OF HELL. With, preferably, PRODUCED BY TODD RUNDGREN in big enough letters underneath. It's the same deal with BAT OUT OF HELL II. On the 25th Anniversary CD there's been a slight correction: which would have been good enough to use in 1977 (but noooooooooo they didn't LOL) It reads, better than it was, but not how it should have been: MEAT LOAF BAT OUT OF HELL SONGS BY JIM STEINMAN Walk up to a person and say "BAT OUT OF HELL". What's the first name that springs to their head? MEAT LOAF. Walk up to a person and say "BAT OUT OF HELL" and they'd probably 80% guarantee never mention the name of the man who write all its songs: and without that man's help there wouldn't have BEEN a BAT album. Some people seem to forget that. Some people seem to forget that Jim is partially responsible for that album, and while he's enjoyed success and accolades from it, people remember the singer's name and not the songwriter. This is only wrong because Meat and Jim were doing this together; not Meat Loaf or a record company paying a songwriter. This was against all the rules, but it was changed. Even I, when I first brought BAT 2, said: "who the hell is Jim Steinman?" Sad...

17 Jan 2006, 10:00	#88
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,077	But this whole credit thing is the same all over. If you think Mission Impossible you think Tom Cruise, you don't necessarily think Brian dePalma and John Woo. Usually acting is probably one of the least intesive jobs making movies, while producers and directors will have endless working days. If you want to write songs you might not get famous for singing them, it's quite simple. I mean who the hell can remember all the songwriters for Elvis Presley who helped to make him famous. It's the same shit all round man. I also think Meat has to work a lot harder on stage than many people realise to save his reputation.

18 Jan 2006, 02:59	#89
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	Yeah, but Meat's a better person than all those Hollywood goons. If he was more ruthless he'd get more parts on film, IMO. Meat has always tried to communicate Steinman's contributions, and that makes it different from everything else. Lieber and Stoller wrote a lot of Elvis songs, but you didn't see their credit at the bottom of the album. Also, some of the biggest stars of stage and screen were in Star Wars, and we all know that George Lucas was responsible for that. Steinman deserved more recognition because it was an "exception to the rule". It was originally a duo, and not just a songwriter being paid to write for a 300-pound singer

18 Jan 2006, 03:23	#91
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	This argument is as old as the album itself. What happened happened. Meat got over it and so did Jimmy. All the animosity was left behind a long time ago. It was a joint effort, and the highlight of both careers IMHO. As already been said, how many song writters are named on the front of an album cover? Meat once said that Jimmy makes him a better singer, and he makes Jimmy a better writter. I agree with that. But that isn't to say that (no disrespect to either here) that Meat should be given songwritting credits, or Jimmy should be given credits above what he did on the album. Yes, to his credit (and as Jimmy acknowledges, to his credit (ever feel your goin round in circles to make sure that your a$$ is covered on every word you say? ) ) Meat pushed for more recognition for Jimmy, but Bat was sold on the focal point of the lead singer.Some people can live with that, some can't, but the ONLY TWO PEOPLE this should concern have put this issue to rest a long time ago. This was a joint effort, and the people who matter know and acknowledge the parts played by two heavyweight talents who are the best in their line in creating a musical masterpiece.

18 Jan 2006, 03:24	#92
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	Right. Thread LOCKED while I clear this up

18 Jan 2006, 03:36	#93
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	OK few select posts thrown in the bin. Reasons for this (aand which I wish posters to bear in mind for future posts on this thread)....... 1.Going off topic.This is (I think ) a discussion about Meat and Jimmy.It's not a discussion about copying, pasting, wallpapering, quilt making, or anything else. Stay on topic please. 2.A reminder, arguments that start off these forums, STAY OFF THESE FORUMS. Information is always welcome, but posting peoples posts from other boards onto these forums is a no no. PERIOD. 3.No personal attacks. Simmer down. Thread opened FOR DISCUSSION again.

18 Jan 2006, 16:41	#97
Jaymze Super Loafer Join Date: 10.12.2003 Location: Sunderland Posts: 265	To be fair I'm sure that if Dead Ringer had either Steinman or Todd in production with Meat at the helm it would have been a smash- leaving it to Meat to produce, who at the time had little production skill when compared to now was obviously a mistake. However I still think Steinman is the real genius out of him and Rundgren- look at how he has an ear for success i.e Bonnie Tyler and Celine Dion. Plus we can hardly credit Anything For Love to Rundgren- that is the best written and recorded song I've ever heard.

18 Jan 2006, 16:45	#98
Louise Super Loafer Join Date: 23.04.2003 Location: East Yorkshire, UK Posts: 235	well said! Louise x

18 Jan 2006, 17:25	#99
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	I think Dead Ringer has the most amazing piano arrangements. The basic tracks were produced by Steinman. The album is dated but the songs are phenomenal. There is nothing wrong with another Dead Ringer.

18 Jan 2006, 18:26	#100
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	I think Dead Ringer kicks serious A$$