McDonalds Vs fat gits with no willpower

[daveake]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

This could revolutionise the undertaking trade.
Don't embalm bodies, just stuff em full of mackies.

So that's where Flame Grilled Whoppers come from ...

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I was about to write a detailed response but realized that you're not interested in an objective discussion, you only want to provoke and spread your prejudices. I'm not gonna play that game.

Ahhh, lets throw the 'you're a prejudice' label on someone, the same as people throw the you're a racist, you're sexist, you're homophobic labels around like candy, just because someone doesn't agree with what they're saying

[Steve6]

I don't really have a problem with the burger and chips in McDonalds. It's the drinks that are extremely unhealthy. I did hear rumours that they add a secret syrup to keep you hooked, which explains why Coca Cola tastes nicer there than anywhere else.

I'd much rather eat from a local takeaway. At least you're eating homemade chips made from real potato, and the burgers are pure beef.

[Evil One]

It's an unlikely rumour. It's more likely that the machine in your branch has gone a knacker and is dispensing too much syrup. With post mix being an easy way of making money I can't see McDonald's giving away any more per serve than they have too.

You do realise that most takeaway chips are frozen cheap crap? Go to a chippy for proper chips, or cook your own.

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by Evil One

You do realise that most takeaway chips are frozen cheap crap? Go to a chippy for proper chips, or cook your own.

The takeaways I go to have lovely homemade chips anyway. At home I normally eat oven chips, which are a very healthy option, compared to the deep-fat frying method.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Ahhh, lets throw the 'you're a prejudice' label on someone, the same as people throw the you're a racist, you're sexist, you're homophobic labels around like candy, just because someone doesn't agree with what they're saying

You can roll your eyes all you want, but when Sarge said that buying decent food is hard when you're on benefits, your response was "It isn't hard at all," which you justified by saying "it's just that most people I know who are on benefits tend to buy shite and things they don't need like cigarettes and alcohol. This is a real bugbear with me ... " which suggests you may have some level of prejudice .. How many people do you really know who are on benefits? And how genuinely representative are they of all those on benefits? Or are you basing your view on those of your family you dismiss as lazy and tarring everyone with the same brush?

When I was on benefits I didn't buy "shite", nor did I drink or smoke .. and those I've known might have had the odd roll-up, occasionally a cheap bottle of wine .. but to suggest they found it easy to manage rent or mortgage, bills, fares, shoes and clothes for their kids, and still have sufficient to find it easy to buy good quality food would be wrong. You can, as I've said, eat healthily; I've been that soldier .. but that comes back to education, and we have a generation of people many of whom were brought up on convenience food and didn't learn food budgeting and cooking on a shoestring; yet suddenly at a time when they may be at their lowest, they're kind of thrown in at the deep end and they struggle.

Any welfare system will have its element of scroungers, but it's unfair to assume that all claimants are such. Most want to find work, and most struggle to make ends meet on their benefits. In some areas work is very hard to find .. and those who will take anything at all rather than remain unemployed tend to find taking low level jobs, far from impressing some future employers when applying for jobs at their previous level, tend to find their recent employment history makes them suspect. Life when you've been caught in the redundancy trap isn't that easy.

Caryl

[carole]

Originally Posted by suzieq

Alongside of the costs of healthy foods and product of environment. The active* family here in the states often would opt for the unhealthier option due to convenience. The other is taste. Some people really just like the taste of unhealthy food.

Yeah I'm like that. And lets face it, unhealthy food usually tastes nicer than healthy food. I don't eat it every day, but I have the occasional McDonalds or Kentucky or other takeaway. And I eat other stuff that's not good for me, but I like it and only have it in moderation. But I am one of the lucky ones and have been blessed with a fast metabolism so have never had a weight problem, nor had any allergies or addictions.

Carole

[carole]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I think you've raised an interesting point, and I'm interested in objective discussion.

There's often a tendency for low income families to opt for cheaper convenience foods, say they can't afford to diet because fresh fruit and salad vegetables are too expensive. I believe they're wrong, but it comes back to education, both at school and in the home, and as you say many of the cheaper foods that are readily available and promoted in supermarkets are high in unhealthy ingredients and additives. I make a choice now to eat meat that has been humanely reared, eggs from free range chickens, avoid transfats .. but they cost more than the other options. I eat less meat as a result, but I am also in the fortunate position that I can afford better quality food and do not have to feed a family, and I know how to cook and make the best of what I buy. There's a generation now, many of whom don't know how to do this .. they never learned to, and should not imo be dismissed as lazy, stupid etc They had the education and upbringing they were given. We're not born feckless, stupid, lazy .. we are a product of our upbringing and schooling.

It is possible to eat healthily on a low budget. When I was a student 6 of us shared an old terraced house in the East end of London; no bathroom and an outside loo We had very little money, but we ate healthily. You can provide a nourishing and satisfying stew with cheap vegetables and a small amount of meat or offal .. even an Oxo cube instead of the meat. We even had a cooked breakfast every morning, whether it was an egg, or baked beans on toast. And ox liver was a regular feature on our menu. Casseroled with veg it made a wonderfully rich and tasty meal .. although the texture was like old boot leathers .. But we'd all learned to cook at home from mothers who remembered rationing and food shortages. We had no biscuits, sweets, potato chips etc in the house; they weren't in the budget. Cake was a treat and was made from scratch.

Years later when I had my daughter and as a single mother took unpaid leave for the first 6 months of her life, I as on benefits. After rent, bills etc there was not much left over, but I went back to shopping at street markets, buying the cheapest cuts of meat, picking up things on their sell-by date which were reduced (which I still do today!) etc. It can be done, but if you don't know how to do it it's hard. I've seen families in the poverty trap on benefits buying individual meat pies and frozen chips whilst saying they can't afford to buy healthy food, yet they could cook a healthy meal from scratch for the same money ... if they knew how. They're not all lazy or spongers .. just not educated in how to shop cheaply and cook healthy meals. But living on benefit isn't easy, and generally you don't have much money imo.

Jamie Oliver has changed the way school meals are provided here (he's currently attempting the same thing in the USA), often fighting parents who are keener on their children's "rights" to eat fried foods that they are about their health .. ignorance through poor education again imo. Fact; he needed more money to be spent on the food budget to provide good, healthy food that would attract the kids. Imo that's because kids now grow up in a world where expectations are different, and they expect choice, and the meals have to be really appealing. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's what is .. and to effect change you have to work with what is, not just shout at people, or dismiss them as lazy But if this generation learn to enjoy healthier foods, and are educated on how to do this cheaply, things can change and improve.

A friend of mine had to bring up her family on benefits or low pay for several years. And neither she nor her husband were "lazy gits". Her husband was made redundant during a depression; there were few jobs, he worked when he could, taking jobs that were menial and low paid. They had 4 children, who all needed clothes; she made them. She scoured the markets, still fed her family well, although cheaply. But it was difficult. One daughter was musically gifted .. and as she said "A clarinet doesn't stew up well!" But she too had learned how to put food on the table cheaply from her mother. If you've never been shown how to make a pie from scratch, perhaps never eaten one, it's all too easy to believe the only way is to buy one .. in which case when you have little money you'll turn to the cheapest but worst processed and unhealthy pie to put on the table. But her children learned from her, and when times have been tough they have been able to feed their families well. It's a circle which can be vicious and downward spiralling, or positive and improving.

You can buy a turkey leg for £3 and it will feed a family of 6 for Sunday lunch, albeit frugally .. but you need the education to understand that, and for many years our "domestic science" classes in schools concentrated on making sponge cakes etc rather on how to feed a family nutritious meals on a shoestring. Change needs to happen; it won't happen overnight, but it can start.

And yes, I'm sure some of the people dumpster diving also smoke or drink cheap booze, or may be on drugs. True, some may be homeless because of drink or drugs; but some are not and turn to these options because of the life they've been cast into. Again, not an excuse, but a reason. To be made homeless is an incredible blow to one's ability to act with intelligence. Living in a hostel or bedsit is hardly conducive to taking responsibility for feeding yourself or your family properly; and many people are becoming homeless because of the economy downturn. I do not dismiss them all as scroungers.

Caryl

You raise a lot of good points. Of course there are always some bludgers who are on benefits, but like you say, not everyone is. Over here shows like Masterchef, have given a resurgence in an interest in cooking. The latest one, Junior Masterchef has children from 8-12 competing, and some of the stuff they cook puts me to shame. So there are a lot of youngsters out there taking an interest in cooking now, and they do encourage the use of fresh meat and fruit and vegetables and cooking everything from scratch. When someone criticised them when they cooked a cake, pointed out that it was much healthier to cook it yourself than to buy one in the shops with all the additives, which is a good point. Growing up, we were always eating home make cakes, biscuits and slices which mum had made for us. My friends laugh at me for owning a mixmaster and making cakes from scratch, they are lazy and only ever make packet mixes. I guess I'm lucky in that I have always enjoyed cooking. But I will never be a Masterchef!!!!!

Carole

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by CarylB

How many people do you really know who are on benefits? And how genuinely representative are they of all those on benefits? Or are you basing your view on those of your family you dismiss as lazy and tarring everyone with the same brush?

I know more people than I care to mention who are on benefits. I used my family to show that I wasn't being prejudice and that I'll call a spade a spade no matter who it is. The area I'm originally from in West Yorkshire has a very high number of people on benefits. I grew up on a council estate where the main topic of conversation wasn't if there's any jobs available but how to get more money from the social.

Nearly every single person I've met who's claiming benefits smokes, drinks, eats crap, are fat and lazy. Yes I admit it would be wrong to tar every single person who's claiming benefits with the same brush, so I'll say 90%+ are as I described.

As the title of this thread is McDonalds Vs fat gits with no willpower you give me the price of a family meal at McDonalds and I'll give you an healthy meal for less money. I've just been on Asda's online store site and you can pick up a great meal deal for 3 FOR £2.50 (stirfry vege's, noodles + sauce as one option) and chicken is cheap too, especially if you go for the 3 FOR £10 deal. Jesus, you can even buy organic beef mince in the 2 FOR £5 deals.

Even if you're on a £20 a week food budget, there's no reason to eat shit and get fat. So the whole you can't eat healthy on a low income is for the majority, utter nonsense.

[CarylB]

I disagree utterly with your view that 90% of UK benefit claimants smoke, drink, eat crap, and are fat and lazy. I too live in Yorkshire, and I've worked in both the Employment and the Benefits offices with claimants at all levels up to senior managers. I think I've had a more comprehensive view of claimants, but there's no point arguing with you as you've clearly got a fixed opinion based on your own personal experience .. as Sarge posted.

As to the availability of decent food on a low budget .. but if you read my posts you'd have seen that I have said yes, you can eat healthily on a low budget, but that we have a generation of people which includes many who did not learn how to budget or to cook from scratch wheh they were young. I shop in Asda. The great meal deals you refer to are cheap I agree; they also are small portions (portion control is another issue which I have said is a problem), and many of them have the additives which we are saying are not healthy. You can find some that are better, but many I wouldn't buy. (I personally wouldn't buy their or Tesco's cheap chickens given they way they are reared, but that's another issue and I accept that those who are poor cannot afford the same scruples). You can buy cheap mince yes, though the cheaper ones (even if organic) have quite a high proportion of fat .. and the cheap meats that are available bring us back anyway to the point that many people have not learned the art of cooking from scratch.

It's not an excuse imo .. but I put it forward as a reason why some find more difficulty in providing budget meals on a shoestring, particularly at a time when they may be at their lowest ebb psyhcologically. I didn't assume that Sarge meant that the price of food was the only reason why people don't eat healthily. She raised poverty as one issue, and I think she has a point. I have said twice now that I have been on benefits, and was perfectly able to deliver tasty and nutritious meals on a very low budget, but not all those on benefits have my knowledge, experience and skills.

Most of the blame I lay at the door of the food industry and education. For too many years school meals here have been unhealthy, pandered to choice, and allowed children to develop a taste for sugary and high fat foods, and not educated them in terms of nutrition, budgeting and basic food and meal preparation. It takes time to effect change, though I believe it's happening.

Jamie Oliver has taken his ideas on feeding children and adopting a healthy diet to the USA now. In the elementary school he was working in he finally got the flavoured milk taken off the menu .. strawbery and chocolate, both horrifyingly high in sugar. But these were on the menu because the State regulations specified that there should be a choice provided. How many young children will go for plain milk when chocolate is offered? If ther parents were also given that choice it is not surprising that the current children's parents may be themselves wedded to sugar? Fries were defined as a "fruit/veg" portion. Put fries in front of kids as a daily option and most will opt for them. We are not only what we eat, but we are a product of what we are given, and this has been going on for more than a generation now. It starts in early education, and not all people watch the cooking and nutritional education programmes on TV, although those that do and are persuaded are providing pressure on food manufacturers and retailers to start improving the quality of what they produce and offer. The movement to eliminate transfats over here is a good example, and there's an increasingly higher proportion of food offered now without them, with the promise to eradicate them entirely. The big supermarkets have bowed to pressure and complaints and mostly removed sugary sweets from around the checkouts.

But there's still a long way to go. Many small drink packs produced specifically for children are high in sugar, although there are some lines that have no added sugar. Why can't the manufacturers of the sugary drinks remove it? The no added sugar ones aren't generally more expensive. "Sunny Delight" is promoted on TV as great for kids .. but it has added sugar. Manufacturers still keep adding new "flavours" to their range of crisps .. additives; and they and retailers promote lines of bumper bags of individual packets for school lunch boxes. Jamie has had to "introduce" many kids in the schools he's worked in to fruit, which imo has to be down to parenting.

Again, I'm not suggesting my points are excuses .. but they are reasons why we have a massive problem to tackle, and it's only imo by understanding and accepting the reasons we can do something about dealing with them, and changing the way people approach their diet. Dismissing those who do not eat healthily as fat lazy gits won't change anything.

Caryl

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by CarylB

but there's no point arguing with you as you've clearly got a fixed opinion based on your own personal experience

WOW, for someone who doesn't argue (news to me we were arguing in the first place ) you write a lot of boring bollocks in response...roll on the rolling eyes

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Pudding

WOW, for someone who doesn't argue (news to me we were arguing in the first place ) you write a lot of boring bollocks in response...roll on the rolling eyes

Most of what I wrote was about the general causes and issues; only the first four lines were responding directly to your assertion that 90% of UK benefit claimants smoke, drink, eat crap, and are fat and lazy.

Your saying I wrote "lot of boring bollocks" is typical of your behaviour and responses generally towards me. You seem unable to engage in a discussion where your point is disagreed with at all without resorting to insults. Your response is simply rude and dismissive .. just as you rudely dismiss benefit claimants.

Shame that discussion on an interesting and rather important issue is destroyed by discourtesy, and that if it's not Pud's way it's going no way.

Caryl

[LucyK!]

I'm completely with Caryl on this one, and I think it does go back to Dave's post at the start of this thread that it's about education.

I grew up in a house of very little cash, my Dad drank most of the cash we did have and when my Mum became a single parent we were on benefits. Did we struggle, yes, but my Mum made sure I ate healthily. Of course we had treats but our day to day eating was very simple meals but using fresh ingredients - cheap cuts of meat from the butchers (I swear I had to go back and correct my typing there as I wrote 'meat' with a capital M ) and fruit and veg that came from the market stalls. We had very little cash but Mum knew what to do with it so we were fine! My Grandma turned 85 in July and she'll tell you the healthiest she has ever been was during the war when even though things were rationed she ate good ingredients. As Caryl said, if more people knew what to do with their money - regardless of how much of it they do or don't have -then more people would know how to eat healthy food for the same price (if not less) than what they're spending on crap. Of course not everyone would take that opportunity but I reckon enough would to make a difference.

[CarylB]

Yes, we reaping the result imo of some significant changes. One being the emergence of convenience foods in supermarkets. I'm the first to admit that I depended heavily on M&S ready to rock'n'roll main meals when I worked fulltime and had a long commute; I still cooked fresh veg, and M&S convenience foods are by and large a healthy option although expensive, but I can understand people on a lower budget but in a similar position wanting to use the cheaper convenience options .. but I think that results in less children learning how to cook from scratch in the home. At the same time schools seem to have largely dropped it from their education. I remember many years ago the daughter of one of my friends coming home saying she had been told to bring in shop bought pastry and a jar of jam or lemon curd to make tarts, and was mortified when her mother insisted she made the pastry and curd at home .. but Chris's view was as she couldn;'t afford to buy ready made pastry for family meals, why the hell were the school advocating it, rather than teach the kids how to do it. Then of course we are bombarded by TV ads for food that isn't that healthy; they far outweigh those advocating the five a day, and business has hopped on the bandwagon advertising their stuff in a way that suggests it's healthier than it is; lurid coloured cereals heavy in sugar don't imo make the best start to the day for kids as opposed to porridge, plain cornflakes or wheetabix with a just sprinkling of sugar for eg.

My mother taight me to make pastry and cakes when I was very young .. she died before we got to main meals, but I watched my father (who'd never cooked a meal in his life up til then ) teach himself from cookery books, so just followed suit. Cooking from fresh ingredients was to me, like you, just how I saw it done. But that's eroded, and the educational system needs to step in. I do agree with Jamie Oliver it needs to start with children in schools when they're young. Nitricious healthy meals, and learning how to budget and cook as well as how to open a bank account and claim benefit .. and as you say, if enough get started that will make a difference.

Caryl

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by CarylB

she had been told to bring in shop bought pastry

Home made pastry is 100 times nicer! Or at least mine is!

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Home made pastry is 100 times nicer! Or at least mine is!

All round to Evil's tonight for tea folks

[Evil One]

I better get the rolling pin out then!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Home made pastry is 100 times nicer! Or at least mine is!

I find it hard to beat good chilled puff pastry to be honest .. but short and rough puff are better home made, and more importantly .. easy to make and cheaper! Still not sure how Tesco's can do profiteroles as cheaply as they do though!

Caryl

[carole]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I find it hard to beat good chilled puff pastry to be honest .. but short and rough puff are better home made, and more importantly .. easy to make and cheaper! Still not sure how Tesco's can do profiteroles as cheaply as they do though!

Caryl

I used to make pastry when I was younger back when you couldn't buy it ready made, but I found it a fiddly time consuming endeavour and now am lazy and buy it. I do like to make things from scratch, but pastry or pasta are the exceptions.

Carole

[CarylB]

I don't attempt pasta .. I don't eat it that often and really it's cheap enough to buy anyway. Pastry I still make most of the time (apart from puff) .. but if children don't learn to make it, and are used to ready made pies being put in front of them, it's hardly surprising if as adults they do the same thing .. and the cheap ones are either full of sugar or the meat (note Lucy I remembered to use a small M ) content is poor and fatty.

I make a cracking suet crust too .. and home made is always better than commercially manufactured

Caryl

[carole]

You have more patience than I do, though I do sometimes make the filling myself and use the bought pastry, so it's half home made. But if I buy a meat pie, I usually buy them fresh from a bakery rather than from the supermarket, they are much nicer and won't be filled with all the additives since they are made and sold the same day.

Carole

[suzieq]

So, this is case and point for all things considered:
http://www.parentdish.com/2010/10/13...c3_lnk3|177705

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by suzieq

So, this is case and point for all things considered:

HOLY SHIT! That lad seriously needs to get on a treadmill and get his little trotters moving. Parents should be prosecuted in my opinion for allowing children to get that disgustingly fat.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by suzieq

So, this is case and point for all things considered:
http://www.parentdish.com/2010/10/13...c3_lnk3|177705

He's so hungry, he's even trying to eat the spoon.
He weighs more than me, ~~~~ sake.

[Sue K]

Now, wait. In fairness, it does say this child may have a glandular disorder. I'm sure at the age of, what did it say 3? ... he hasn't been taking himself off to McDonald's on a daily basis.

Imo, the photo looks Photoshopped, actually.