THE STANDING

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Picked by members of this forum through a poll on here ..

Caryl

I want to vote where is it??

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I'm rather surprised that Like A Rose seems to be the least popular HCTB song, yet it was picked as a single for the fan campaign.

If you think its gonna be a good single for radio and whether you yourself like the song or not are two different things.

[White of High]

The first time when I opened the CHSIB threads I thought these were overreacted by members. After 8 years everybody loved everything and rated very high. Some members are voting always with 10, it means FCOL and Do It are the sam category.

My personal opinion that WTTN is better than CHSIB or HCTB but not better than Bad Attitude. Okay, The Very Best Of was a hits and not an album, this is the reason I was counting only with the 3 news songs...

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by White of High

The first time when I opened the CHSIB threads I thought these were overreacted by members. After 8 years everybody loved everything and rated very high. Some members are voting always with 10, it means FCOL and Do It are the sam category.

Correct. It's interesting that the same problem didn't happen with Bat 3 or HCTB though.

[Elijah's way]

WOW!! that's the wackest list of all time! it don't even make sense. Hang Cool Teddy Bear at #7?!? Welcome To The Neighborhood at #9?!? with Dead Ringer, Couldn't Have Said It Better, Bad Attitude, and The Very Best Of ahead of two of his best albums, really makes no sense!! and Bat 3 is better than those 4 albums. WTF

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Elijah's way

WOW!! that's the wackest list of all time! it don't even make sense. Hang Cool Teddy Bear at #7?!? Welcome To The Neighborhood at #9?!? with Dead Ringer, Couldn't Have Said It Better, Bad Attitude, and The Very Best Of ahead of two of his best albums, really makes no sense!! and Bat 3 is better than those 4 albums. WTF

But you're only going to get a fair comparison if you have exactly the same people awarding a rating each time. WoH says "After 8 years everybody loved everything and rated very high. Some members are voting always with 10" .. if the some are rated by people who gave low ratings, and others (like myself) don't rate anything down if they can personally not fault a track, you will have a skewed effect.

I never rate tracks against each other, never post on those threads. I rated every track on HCTB a 10 because I love each and every one. That's an entirely reasonable stance imo because one's appreciation is a very personal thing. There is not a song Meat has recorded that I would rate low, because (apart from the spoken ones, that I do not enjoy at all .. and they are Steinman's anyway) there is not a track I would ever fast forward past. There are perhaps some on some albums I might not rate a 10 .. but with HCTB I love them all.

I am not a musician, cannot make comments about this or that guitar solo fading too fast, or this or that drum sequence lacking in some way. I listen to Meat's voice and passion, and the overall feel of the track. I'm simply a follower of Meat, love his music, love what he gives me. When it achieves that for me, it's a 10.

Caryl

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Steve6

I want to vote where is it??

You missed the boat; it's closed. There were two polls, and the one which polled highest on the second vote (which was between the highest polling tracks in the first vote) was chosen for the campaign. You can't keep changing it during a campaign; too costly in terms of time and our financial resources which are limited to personal expenditure.

Caryl

[White of High]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I never rate tracks against each other, never post on those threads. I rated every track on HCTB a 10 because I love each and every one.

You don't need to rate the tracks against each other. But that's funny when people say FCOL and Like A Rose are sam quality. The first is a masterpiece, a hard job, a deep story, the second one is an easy listening, 2 chords, simple rock cliché. You can enjoy it, but it's not the same quality...

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by White of High

You don't need to rate the tracks against each other. But that's funny when people say FCOL and Like A Rose are sam quality. The first is a masterpiece, a hard job, a deep story, the second one is an easy listening, 2 chords, simple rock cliché. You can enjoy it, but it's not the same quality...

But that's precisely what you are doing in your reply .. rating one song against another.

As I said, it's a personal choice, my view on tracks on an album. I do not think about a track on another album when I rate a song .. I ask myself, can I fault it? If the answer in my opinion is no, then I say 10.

I said also that I am not a musician, don't analyse evey chord, I am simply someone who loves Meat's voice, performance, creativity, passion and style. I do not listen to find flaws or faults. I listen to enjoy. HCTB is TO ME a perfect collection of songs, which TO ME convey a powerful journey of love, self-discovery and learning. Each one TO ME flows from the one before and leads to the next. I know enough about what music I enjoy to know that I love the guitar heavy rock and ballads, and love the sound of Meat's vocals which make me feel like I'm sitting at a live performance. That's how I felt when I first heard the album, how I felt when I finally got it, and how I feel now .. except now I have the visuals playing in my mind when I listen to it having seen Meat performing some of the tracks live. I do not need tricky or complex lyrics .. although I think there is considerable depth to the songs on HCTB, and TO ME they convey a powerful story. I also love the newness of the album .. it's still a Meat album, still rocks, but he's moved on. And I love that.

Caryl

[White of High]

What I can say... you do it well, Caryl...

The reason I like Meat loaf is his theatrical performance, his deep emotions, his heavy and serious arrangement, his very good voice. But I really don't like whe he sings simple rock songs, low tunes ballads, wear funny clothes and show him 20 when he is 60.

In 1998 when Kiss, Is Nothing Sacred and No Matter What came out I thought he goes to a classical way (what is fixing to a 50-60 years old singer). When I heard Jim Steinman's new song from Batman, I said, yes, here are the best very heavy arrenged classical theatrical songs for Meat... but still nothing, just looking for his glam era when he is 60...

[CarylB]

Meat's stage clothes are part of his theatrical performance .. and imo are designed to have impact from a distance. You sit at the back of an arena and the colour and sparkles stand out. They neither make him look 20 (how many 20 year olds do you EVER see wearing jackets like that? Please!!!!) nor imo is he aiming for that effect, which would be wasted anyway even were it the case as he now embraces his maturity and tells everyone his age while he's performing. He's not "looking for his glam era" .. he simply wants to make a dramatic appearance on stage, and he is as concerned about the person sitting furthest away from him as he is about those at the front. He's an actor. He's also a magnificent showman, and everything about his show is big, bold, dramatic .. his jackets, the staging, Patti's and CC;s stage costumes.

You are a Steinman fan, you like Meat to sing his songs. I am a Meat fan and I love to hear HIM sing and perform. That's the difference. And Meat has changed direction. He still hammers out his rock and roll style (his, not Steinman's), still commands his stage, still gets his audience to their feet, still performs. Now he has a style he's been working towards, to which all his experience has been leading him. And I'm the lucky one, because I think it's pure gold.

Caryl

[White of High]

You are right, I think Jim Steinman is the best rock composer ever. I'm not that fan who likes everything what are made by his idol. I think Meat had the best voice ever (and Freddy Mercury as well) in pop music and Steinman was the best songwriter. But I don't like Jim's Nowhere Fast or Break It, and I don't like Meat's Do It or Burning Down. I don't like everything what they make.

I have a cold head and pure opinion about all their songs. And most of the people have. This is the reason after CHSIB, HCTB or Bat3 we think Meat's best albums were recorded by Jimmy. So, personality, you can love Meat's new style but most of the people think it's only enough to make a 7th best Meat album...

Meat doesn't need to change his mind, he can do everything what he wants (ban my quotes in other topics, for example ). But he can accept, after 3 albums in the last 10 years he made average albums. No, I don't say it. All of the fans say it because we rate his all songs...

[Elijah's way]

I know I'm not in this argument but I think HCTB is his 2nd best album!! just thought I'd give my two cents in.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by White of High

You are right, I think Jim Steinman is the best rock composer ever. I'm not that fan who likes everything what are made by his idol. I think Meat had the best voice ever (and Freddy Mercury as well) in pop music and Steinman was the best songwriter. But I don't like Jim's Nowhere Fast or Break It, and I don't like Meat's Do It or Burning Down. I don't like everything what they make.

I said you like Meat to sing Steinman songs. I meant you prefer him singing Steinman, and don't seem to value him singing songs written by other composers as much .. not that you necessarily liked every Steinman penned song.

I have a cold head and pure opinion about all their songs. And most of the people have. This is the reason after CHSIB, HCTB or Bat3 we think Meat's best albums were recorded by Jimmy. So, personality, you can love Meat's new style but most of the people think it's only enough to make a 7th best Meat album...

Many people here .. that doesn't cover every Meat fan. It's 7th best based on your threads here, which seem to generally have under 50 responses.

Meat doesn't need to change his mind, he can do everything what he wants (ban my quotes in other topics, for example ). But he can accept, after 3 albums in the last 10 years he made average albums. No, I don't say it. All of the fans say it because we rate his all songs...

No, not ALL his fans say it here .. and there are a few more out there than post on this forum. I'm not going to cover matters discussed exhaustively on other threads, but to suggest Meat's albums from the last 10 years are "average" based on comments and ratings made here is a skewed judgement, and allows nothing for the huge changes in the music industry.

To make comparison with BOOH is always going to "prove" it was best, because it was a phenomenon, a landmark album for its time, and captured the market's imagination, and because Meat's name will always be synonymous with BAT, it will continue to sell as he attracts new fans who will buy the album he made his name with.

But if the only yardstick we use to judge an album's worth as an album is sales, then every album he makes will be poorer .. and all the rating threads are pointless too. Whether you approve ot not, there are many fans on here who DO think HCTB is an exceptional record, and the threads you have started on rating songs and albums show that. Not all .. it's pretty polarised. In general people on here either love it or don't rate it very highly at all. I think more rate it highly than don't .. and to me that it causes controversy is a good thing .. shows it's new, different and can capture the imagination, enthusiasm and hearts of many. That makes it far from "average" imo.

BOOH was and will always be special to me; it was the album that brought him into my world. But although I don't make a point of comparing albums, the ones I play most often are CHSIB and HCTB (and Best Of because that has so many favourites on it). CHSIB connected with me more than any other album he'd released after BOOH, and HCTB is, to ME, a masterpiece. It's not just about the notes, the cleverness or simplicity of the lyrics, the style etc; rock and roll is imo more about the connection it makes with one on a very individual level. Meat's passion and delivery never fail to connect with me, so I enjoy all his albums without criticism or complaint, but CHSIB and HCTB connect powerfully as albums.

Caryl

[carole]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Meat's stage clothes are part of his theatrical performance .. and imo are designed to have impact from a distance. You sit at the back of an arena and the colour and sparkles stand out. They neither make him look 20 (how many 20 year olds do you EVER see wearing jackets like that? Please!!!!) nor imo is he aiming for that effect, which would be wasted anyway even were it the case as he now embraces his maturity and tells everyone his age while he's performing. He's not "looking for his glam era" .. he simply wants to make a dramatic appearance on stage, and he is as concerned about the person sitting furthest away from him as he is about those at the front. He's an actor. He's also a magnificent showman, and everything about his show is big, bold, dramatic .. his jackets, the staging, Patti's and CC;s stage costumes.

You are a Steinman fan, you like Meat to sing his songs. I am a Meat fan and I love to hear HIM sing and perform. That's the difference. And Meat has changed direction. He still hammers out his rock and roll style (his, not Steinman's), still commands his stage, still gets his audience to their feet, still performs. Now he has a style he's been working towards, to which all his experience has been leading him. And I'm the lucky one, because I think it's pure gold.

Caryl

I feel the same way Caryl, you sum it up nicely. I am a fan of Meat's and love all his songs, regardless of who wrote them. That is pretty irrelevant to me. But of course I have my favourites and love some more than others. I love his voice, his passion and how he makes every song he sings his own and puts his own unique stamp on it. He is a showman, and it shows at all his concerts. Whereas a lot of other artists just get up there in jeans and a tshirt, and some are downright scruffy, Meat always looks immaculate on stage and has taken a lot of trouble with his appearance. I love his sparkly jackets.

Carole

[Elijah's way]

So... Is anybody gonna update this thread?

[White of High]

After HIAHB votes...

[White of High]

Hell In A Handbasket with a rate of 7.61 is our 7th favourite Meat Loaf album, only one step from Hang Cool Teddy Bear.

MLUKFC members keep California Dreamin' the best on the album and Meat fans don't like rap. Both rap songs are on the bottom of the list.

Voting is not closed, open forever!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by White of High

Hell In A Handbasket with a rate of 7.61 is our 7th favourite Meat Loaf album, only one step from Hang Cool Teddy Bear.

MLUKFC members keep California Dreamin' the best on the album and Meat fans don't like rap. Both rap songs are on the bottom of the list.

I'd have thought that with average scores of close to 5 for Mad Mad World, and 6.5 for Stand in the Storm, and the numbers voting (14 and 15 respectively), you could infer that something between 5-7 members of this forum don't like rap when Meat includes it in a song, and to the extent that it pulls the songs down to the bottom of your list. Certainly some of the 14/15 people liked it quite a lot.

Caryl

[White of High]

Voting is free. I cannot count votes of anybody who doesn't vote. So, sorry if it bad for you, but fans who voted kept rap songs the worst on the album...

[White of High]

Another interesting thing... Similarly to HCTB there is no red song on HIAHB. We keep Blind As A Bat as Meat's last big hit...

Personally I keep Song Of Madness a hit.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by White of High

Voting is free. I cannot count votes of anybody who doesn't vote. So, sorry if it bad for you, but fans who voted kept rap songs the worst on the album...

You can't argue with statistical analysis ... even the odd 10 for songs everyone else thinks are less than good can't skew the overall result ... averages are averages ...

[Paul Richardson]

So presumably you'd dispute an election result you didn't like just because some of the electorate couldn't be bothered to get off their arse and vote ?

Statistical analysis is absolute and beyond debate, by definition, no matter how much you may, subjectively, 'dislike' the result ...

... the person that votes 1 is probably as 'unreasonable' as the person that votes 10, the whole point of averaging the scores is it evens out the more extreme views to arrive at a consensus ...

[Wario]

itd be nice if youd take the time and link each song to its corresponding thread. these threads are interesting reads and it cna be a chore to find them. Itd be nice if they were all in one place.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

So presumably you'd dispute an election result you didn't like just because some of the electorate couldn't be bothered to get off their arse and vote ?

Statistical analysis is absolute and beyond debate, by definition, no matter how much you may, subjectively, 'dislike' the result ...

... the person that votes 1 is probably as 'unreasonable' as the person that votes 10, the whole point of averaging the scores is it evens out the more extreme views to arrive at a consensus ...

My post now makes no sense, as the post by BostonAngel I was responding to has now been deleted ...