Meat's posts

[R.]

I have tried to address some of the points mentioned. Please take this as what it is, a reply to this thread and not as a final statement from an admin. Well, there's one excepton - it's right below.

Originally Posted by Kathy

I am hoping that the truth of "you can't have your cake and eat it too" will sink in, the choice will be made to accept the honor of hosting (and not muzzling!) Meat, and the thread (up to and including his last post, with the rest lopped off) will be restored.

No. The thread will remain deleted. This is a public forum. The "General Messages" area is available to anyone who choses to go there. That includes search engines as well. Now, imagine someone researching Meat Loaf, finding mlukfc.com through Google, learning that Fire Ball actually is Meat Loaf reads this thread without knowing the circumstances behind it. That person will probably get a perception of Meat Loaf that is miles away from the perception we'd like to see. Btw, a thread like this (and there have been some) would have been removed on the old .net in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I can see it from both sides but I am not a Mod or is Meat for that matter so why it was deleted and who requested it is just speculation here. Has anyone actually asked a mod before thinking about starting this debate? It did get ugly from what I read. Surely this is not the right time to have such negative threads around? And in the end this site is paid for and hosted not by any of us so we should respect that as well. Yeah sure you can have the whole democracy debate but perhaps things get removed as that can also be in Meat's interest and reputation?

Yes.

Originally Posted by CarylB

But I can also see that whilst the thread might have sent a message to those here who indulge in that behaviour, to newcomers it could easily be open to misinterpretation, given we have the rather daft situation where Meat can't use his own name. People often take a while to accept that this IS Meat posting, and when they don't know the background that's led up to what took place yesterday, it could look very strange.

My fault, as I have explained in a different thread. I can fix that, but that would require to assign the current "meat loaf" a new name. Nothing impossible. I have the impression though, that he's happy with "Fire Ball".

Originally Posted by CarylB

Personally I would have liked a clear statement on the forum when this was removed that the behaviour that provoked it is not acceptable, that Meat is honoured here and deserves respect. That if you don't like some of his work you may of course say this but should do so politely, with respect for his feelings.

As it is with the rules, nobody will reads this. Out of interest, how would you word this in two sentences?

Originally Posted by Sarge

By the way, why do we actually argue about some stupid thing that happened yesterday and that many people - fortunately - did not witness? It's in the past!

I wonder abut this as well.

Originally Posted by Monstro

It took me ages to actually grasp the reality of this site and to this day there are posts that piss me off or I think were written by a complete idiot but it's how I react that's changed. The truth is this isn't Meat's site, it isn't .net, it's an independant fan club run by the fans for the fans, not for the artist.

I agree that it's brilliant Meat chooses to post here (if he didn't I wouldn't have gone to the London listening party) but I also like the fact that not every post has to be I love it, it's brilliant etc etc. Opposing viewpoints are welcomed here, not all fans are going to love everything Meat does, personally I hated Popstar to Operastar and laughed out loud at the BOOH arrangement. Saying that though I think Meat was right, continuosly poking at something is wrong but the thread the way it went was wrong, whilst some think that Meat should be allowed to posts whatever he wants is right, I don't. Personally I don't want to see someone I've admired and followed for donkey's years reduce himself to the level of those just trying to wind him up, Meat called him out and said what many thought and that's where he should've left it, as stated earlier in this thread it turned into a battle not a discussion so it was right it was removed and I'd like to think in the cold light of day Meat would agree with that.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by tink

... that if soon we all don't agree to disagree and shake on it ... ... this thread will be locked... right ? ... it's already been tucked away in Feedback Central ... ... lol ... SEIZE THE DAY AND PEACE IT OUT !!!! ... ...

Well, this IS a feedback issue, or is it not? And right now I don't see why this one should be locked.

Originally Posted by Lucy!

As far as I'm concerned it should be one rule for all regardless of who the poster is, otherwise what's the point in the rules?

Exactly.

Originally Posted by wolfy35

I dont have a "report" button anymore on here I lost it when I switched to a 64 bit O/S and added the facebook bridge

I need a screenshot to see what your are seeing. It should look like this.

Originally Posted by CarylB

Like we always do .. until the next time when Meat is prodded with a stick, reacts and it starts all over again?

Then, how will you proactively stop this? The only way to achieve this is to moderate each and every post before it goes public. The software can do this, but you don't want this and for sure we do not want to check up to 500 posts a day to see if they are in accord with our rules.

Originally Posted by Sarge

The moderators of this forum have done a very good job so far. It's none of their business what members of this forum say or don't say on other forums. What matters is whether they violate the rules of this forum. As far as I know, several members have already gotten warnings or have been banned when that was the case, so there's no reason to complain about how this forum is being moderated. It's interesting that it's usually the same bunch of people who are trying to tell the mods what to do (and I suspect many of them rather like to add fuel to fire than simply click the report button).

Iirc there has been one ban that was issued after two infractions. I shelled out one trolling infraction for a trolling attempt in one of the review threads and there have been numerous removed posts because of complaints (reports). We do react to reported posts and the particular issue that eventually caused this thread was "resolved" within 3 hours.

[meat_loaf2008]

Cheers R. much appreciated

[AndrewG]

Thanks R and the other mods for addressing this.

It's funny this in a way as it reminds me of the Jonathan Ross / Russell Brand incident. Hardly anyone would have heard that original insult/joke and then all of a sudden gazillions of people were "offended" by what was said and made complaints. Crazy. It's not exactly the same what has happened here but it is funny that there are countless more opinions in this thread than were number of posts in the original thread which was removed.

[suzieq]

R.,

Thanks for your reply to several key elements here so far, I look forward to hearing the final assessment from admin.

Respectfully,
Suzieq

[CarylB]

Thanks for comments Rainer. You asked me a couple of questions. Like you I need a bit of thinking time And will get back to you

Caryl

[djfierce]

Rainer,

This is your site and as far as i have seen, you've always ran a fair ship.

In regards to Meat's posts i see it in a very simple way

Yes his name is up top and with that we should all show a little respect for the man we are supposed to be here for, someone said to me once before that they were here because of Jim's music and not for Meat, well i do believe there is a seperate site for that. I simply dont understand why some and i do stress only some, are here as i have never once read a positive thing about Meat EVER from them.

However those that post honest reviews and have the decency to give a constructive reason behind it should feel free to post how they feel. I do not believe for one minute that Meat isn't open to honest respectable opinions. Mindless argumentative stuff should absolutely be deleted and the poster dealt with accordingly.

As far as Meat goes

Well i kind of figure he's big enough to object to R personally if he has a problem with his posts being removed, and i suspect that after going back a little while later possibly agrees with the post no longer being there. If he doesn't i'm sure R and Meat are able to discuss this. One thing has always been apparant, Meat has a healthy respect for R, do you think he would if he thought he was being censored or treated anything other than he should? Meat does get special treatment to an extent and does make posts that alot of us wouldnt get away with, the only deleted posts i have seen have been when Meat has clearly been pushed to the point of saying something he otherwise wouldnt. Deleting these posts is in Meat's interest too, if i was a newbie and had come to this site, looked back through some of the recent posts which take me to heavily edited threads, it would be easy for me to have a poor opinion of the man, given that everyone else's posts would have been edited or even removed i would not be able to see what exactly Meat was answering and may get the opinion he just blows off at the slightest issue.

We know that's not true, but only because we read those threads before they were edited, but besides putting whoever in their place at the time, and showing them they can't just 'piss' all over his hard work, what purpose would it serve for that kind of post to continue to exist?

I can't think of a single positive reason myself.

Long live the man, his opinions, personality and more importantly ability to speak up for himself and defend his own character, but that shouldn't exist without any boundary whatsoever, just a little more relaxed than us normal folk

Made sense in my head anyway

[Fire Ball]

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

Originally Posted by Sarge

It was a pretty ugly thread and I'm glad it has been removed. I do not favor censorship but with regard to the reputation of this forum, I think it was the right decision. People who aren't familiar with the background and who stumble over such threads could easily misinterpret them.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

Eventually, yes. But you shouldn't be made to feel the need to .. Best to consign the thread to history though.

You're a big man

Caryl xo

[MeatGrl1]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

It's sad that you got pushed to THAT extreem though.

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Eventually, yes. But you shouldn't be made to feel the need to .. Best to consign the thread to history though.

You're a big man

Caryl xo

Exactly right Caryl
Vicki

[lorenzoduke]

If two parties have resolved an argument or dispute, I don't see why the thread should be preserved for gossip vultures to descend on, for whatever my opinion's worth.

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

I'll concede for motion of the thread to remain down out of respect. As far as future toy throwing.....I would hope the mods move it to a member only (non google-able) area like they did with this thread.

Suzieq

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by suzieq

I'll concede for motion of the thread to remain down out of respect. As far as future toy throwing.....I would hope the mods move it to a member only (non google-able) area like they did with this thread.

Suzieq

hi Suzieq ... what do you mean by "non google-able" ? ... i logged off to see if the feedback section is visible... and it is ... and i can read the posts there ...

[lorenzoduke]

Members only sections can't be included in Google search terms. Non-members/public sections can.

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Members only sections can't be included in Google search terms. Non-members/public sections can.

i don't understand why sections of a forum would be googled... a person can google UK Meat Loaf Fan Club and come here and see the Feedback Section and read the posts without joining... at least that's how it appears to me ...

[Fire Ball]

They can ? News to me !! not good !
M

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

They can ? News to me !! not good !
M

what i did was log out and come on and i could see the feedback section ... maybe it's still in cookies or something ? ... but i think when you log out you clear cookies for the UK website... i don't mean to upset you or anyone Chiefie ... it's just what i see... i could be doing something the wrong way though ... xo

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by tink

i don't understand why sections of a forum would be googled... a person can google UK Meat Loaf Fan Club and come here and see the Feedback Section and read the posts without joining... at least that's how it appears to me ...

Confuses the hell out of me .. When you log out and log in again tink you are a member, so all sections will be visible. What Rainer referred to re Google was I think more about people just searching on Google and connecting to the site as non-members.

But this site isn't like a pay site, and one reason the thread was better removed was that new members can quickly and easly join and get access, and something out of context and without knowledge of the background, wouldn't look that good. The other of course is that it's done and over.

Better to let R and his team consider how best to prevent the poking with a stick so Meat doesn't feel the need to defend himself .. because as most of us agree, he shouldn't ever feel he has to on a fan club site. He's always open to reasoned and reasonable feedback which is worded with respect for him as a hugely talented and experienced performer and which doesn't consist of sustained attacks on his work or attacks on his character or motives.

Rainer says they're working on it, so hopefully a resolution will be found, and this can be the positive place it should be and one where Meat doesn't get poked and prodded into having to defend himself.

Caryl

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by tink

what i did was log out and come on and i could see the feedback section ... maybe it's still in cookies or something ? ... but i think when you log out you clear cookies for the UK website... i don't mean to upset you or anyone Chiefie ... it's just what i see... i could be doing something the wrong way though ... xo

i logged out and got this message below:

All cookies cleared!
Return to the page you were previously viewing
Go to forums index

i googled UK Meat Loaf fan club ... did not log on ... checked the forums... saw Feedback Central ~ went to Meat's posts thread and went to post a reply and got message below:



You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
You are not logged in. Fill in the form at the bottom of this page and try again.
You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Log inUser Name:

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so i logged in to make this post ...

it seems to me anyone accessing the site may be able to see the Feedback Section ?... i don't know ... xo

[Vickip]

I did the same thing tink ... I logged out using IE and then pulled up the forum again
using FireFox. I could pull up both General Messages and Feedback Central and read all of the threads, but I had to log in to be able to post a message.

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong ... but I think you have to log in before
reading the other sections of the message board.

[suzieq]

@Tink:
go to pm


Suzieq

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

They can ? News to me !! not good !
M

Shhhhh.........keep your toys safely tucked until the mods figure it out.

Suzieq

[mszee]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

Oh my god...can I just meet you again so that I can give you big hug for this? This is priceless and very big of you...

[mszee]

I just stumbled on this thread...and obviously, I side with R., Monstro, Duke, Sarge to name just a few and last but not the least...Meat...

I do want to add something to what has been said already...

It started with unfortunate post on another forum, it upset Meat...but he moved on...and we didn't...

We started all out war in that thread where we were slugging crap at each other left and right...we...who should be united in our love for the artist...we even forgot what started it in the first place...as long as we could hit each other where it hurts...and hit HARD...

Thread is, thank god, removed...and relative peace comes on...then we open the can of worms again and all out war with crap hitting the fan starts again...

That is why it's good that threads like these are removed or locked...because there is somebody out there who should say...enough already...and thank god we have people here who can...

Enough already....please...respect the admins and mods of this site and their decisions...cause Meat obviously does...and if you think that everything Meat does is right...then accept the fact that removing that thread is right as well...and I would love to see this one removed as well...lol....

[djfierce]

look, if Meat's big enough to put it to rest and admit even he goes too far sometimes then we should leave it at that. Wasn't it Meat's post we were discussing? You read his opinion so leave it at that.

As far as google-able things, i'm pretty sure the situation is that you can read the whole forum as a non member but you just can't post.

Now I took it that meat posted in here to have the finaly word and to lay this to rest so can we just all agree with him? It seems we all kind of do anyway from our posts.