Debate

[LucyK!]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Adje, you will be there you got balls and stood up to me and didn't take your ball and go home. Don't know where it will be right now won't know that till March
Love Ya,
Meat

You want balls? I'll give you balls my dear...

Mr Loaf...just over a month ago you logged on here, completely out of the blue, and wrote the most wonderful message to Andy and I before our wedding. From the bottom of my heart I will never be able to thank you enough for that (though I'll have fun trying ) and the forum was filled with such positivity off the back of that post because people got a very personal glimpse of the real you.

Meat, I love you, but you drive me crazy! I mean, really crazy! There are people here who take great pleasure in poking the fire, simply because it provokes a response from you - all they want is "Fireball" quoting their posts, you give it to them, and in the process of doing so you make yourself angry and post things which turn a lot of people off.

It's nature to want to defend yourself but if we're honest I think you know that some (most) of those posts are pretty awful to read. I can't believe they're written by the same guy that wrote the post mentioned above.

I'm sorry you think that "97%" of people here are against you, but I'll tell you now Meat that you got it wrong - 97% here are completely behind you. People here sacrifice a lot to follow your tours, not because they have to but because they want to, so please don't forget that.

[The Flying Mouse]

Again, can we try to keep to the more general subject of the thread rather than debate politics amongst ourselves?
The thread is quite hot as it is IMHO.
Not to mention how fast it's going.

To paraphare a f*cking great song, baby we can debate and argue all night, but that ain't getting us nowhere.

[robgomm]

I'd love to carry on chatting, but bed calls yawn. Night all.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Forum Runner

[clpmss]

I usually don't post on here, but Meat (Sir) I have to agree with you. The hc bill sucks. I know I work for a hospital. I'm not going to fight with you but Obama just might win because he was showing his face during this Hurricane. He has done nothing for me. My opinion and my vote with be for change. Romey I'm hoping will get the job done. We need jobs, homes not more debt. We have all been devastated this past week. Some of us, like me are still going thru it. If he was any kind of President, he should have helped everyone on Tuesday, not days later. I still owe you a piece of wedding cake. LOL!!!!

You still have my support and love
Chris

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree most don't deserve it , but I had to start the fight to find the real enemies. When it ends the real fans will still be here and I will do something special for them . Was thinking when I came on that was going to invite all here to a dress Rehearsal in April. I would say 97% will be invited.
Meat

[The Flying Mouse]

Time for another clean up.
I was going to leave some of the polital debate posts up there, but people can't resist answering them.

Locked while i'm doing it.

[The Flying Mouse]

OK, last chance saloon for this thread.

The subject is Meat's post here aimed at his critics concerning the voice thread and his endorcement.

It's not a general political debate.
There are sites for that kind of debate.

I've left some of the vids up, and a quote from Obama, because they are answering questions concerning the candidates. This has got at least some relevance here because Meat has made an endorcement.

So questions about policy, and direct answers to those questions using quotes from the candidate as source material, fair enough, but quit the in fighting on politics please.

Any more, the thread is history.

[wizardofodd]

Well this has been a very interesting read hasn't it? Meat it seems you've come on here with a rage (have calmed down since) but all I can say is this- for the people who have attacked you personally with horrible comments you have every right to fire back! but remember this, if somebody doesn't agree with your political ideology, beliefs and who you support doesn't make then any less of a fan. The election has divided your nation and will divide your fan base. I love you as a singer, actor and as a person but I disagree with your judgement to endorse an individual who I have political differences with and I stand by my belief that endorsing a candidate makes it appear that you side with Romney on every political point, socially and economically. I am sure you expected to be questioned and criticised when you made the decision to endorse but there is nothing wrong with that- that is the nature of politics, debate is healthy and should be encouraged its just a shame when it verges into personal attacks.

[Dick]

I was going to comment earlier but the thread was closed to be split etc and so i saved my comment,i went out planning to post it when i returned only now it doesnt make sense any more and other people have said what i was going to and parts will now be off topic...so heres the edited version... (and as i was editing the thread was cleaned again so god only knows how this will turn out)

Im not too sure what im commenting on here? Is it meat saying we're haters? or that we're haters because of his endorsement? Or that we're generally shit?

I dont post much, but as you can see i have been a member here since '03 and i do read most of what gets posted.

So I just want to say,

1. Nice to know that there is a new album on the way, i look forward to it and hope it will once again be balls to the walls meat. Rockin!

2. Politics is politics and full of opinions and we all know what opinions are like. As for mine, i know ~~~~~~ all of american politics, i do just know that i'm a tad gay so dont necessarily agree with some of the candidates opinions and views. The fact Meat agrees with him for what he feels is the greater good of his country then fair play. As wonderful a dream it is to all be friends, sometimes we'll just disagree.

3. Meat, I think you shouldn't jump to saying we're all haters like you do as i know from what i read every day that there is a lot of respect and admiration for you. I can see how you can get wound up easily, ur an emotional creative type, I know I've Pm'd you many a time with various questions about the nature of performance and you have only ever been generous and gracious with your responses.
Then every so often you are calling out and shouting at people who love and respect you. Obviously the voice thread may have struck a nerve, you are a perfectionist and are always trying to maintain a specific quality, and we as fans and individuals are all allowed our own view and opinion of how we perceive perfection.
For some it was a certain era of your career, a certain album, a specific show and for others its simply just watching you work. People just want you to be the best, you wanted people to understand why you went for Romney, because you think hes the best for what your country needs. We as fans can feel that too, like football fans we want our team to be the best.
After all im sure you arent the only actor or singer on this board, im sure you inspired many here. And everyone wants to put their tuppence worth in, in most case because i believe they think they can help, even if you didnt ask for it. I'd love to know that something i did or said may have helped.

So i reckon you just need to take everything with a pinch of salt, ok there may be some posts from time to time stirring the pot but you're well able to deal with that. Yea, you dont want to on a site with your name on it, but that is part of the game it seems.

Seems like ive done the usual stoner thing of drifting and rambling.

Any questions about explanations of what i meant can be put on a post card....


Lots and Lots of Love

Richard

[anotherday]

All Right....

MEAT:

I have been a true "lifelong" fan. I even raised my children on your music, and pretty much nothing else. Your movies have a permanent place in my VHS and DVD collection. And you have touched my life in ways I cannot even begin to describe.

Your choice of endorsement, while not one that I AGREE with...believe has NO bearing on your music, nor your movies, nor my constant admiration for you. Simply put: I LOVE YOU. I will continue to support you until the day you quit, AND BEYOND.

I cannot believe there are people who are saying you're a BIGOT and a MORON just because you voiced your OPINION! But don't take it TOO harshly...This is AMERICA...Look at what we did to the Dixie Chicks (Another group I admire) after they came out against GWB. We will ALWAYS love you. I for ONE will ALWAYS be here for YOU! you can "PM" me, call me, anything! I will talk to you until your EAR falls OFF! .

I cannot WAIT for your new ALBUM and TOUR! Please, please come back to the MIDWEST! I LOVED your show at Mystic Lake, and would LOVE to SEE you again...Maybe even MEET you /faints.

Godspeed, and go "crazy" on your new album! You are VERY BRAVE!

AD

[DJLeen]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Can't you see the people who say they love me, are hurting me !! I came to read some good things and all I got was the same as those Libs wrote me, you suck. I came to visit my friends , found out different.
M

That's not true Meat, I always say I love you and I mean that from the bottom of my heart...
I'm sorry I'm not much on mlukfc, when the UK tour starts I'll try to write as many revieuws as I can ! I'll try to attend as many shows as possible in the UK ! I'm happy I can see you again in april, I've been waiting such a long time it will be 13 months after I met you in London. I want you to know That I don't travel to a foreign country for every artist I like to listen to...You Meat, are an exception I will only travel so far only for you !! Last february I traveled all the way to London for you, I knew... I only could be with you for + - 2 minutes ? I could have waited till you tour again but I didn't, I had to see you ! So I took the trip from Belgium to London and I don't regret myself that I did ! :) That's what true fans do I guess ??? I hope the cold, long winter will pass soon so I can see you again in april ! Love you ( I mean that !) Sorry I couldn't resist lol ((hugs)) XO

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by Adje

Well I guess I saw it wrong too. Because you deleted them EVENTUALLY. But not initially. In fact (and I wish I had made caps) you even replied to one guy, whoms post was deleted already, and called him a moron. I know you deleted two of my posts but kept the pro-Romney replies up for at least 4 days after my posts were gone (perhaps longer but I didn't check in after those days. They are all gone now though

I have to say that you are not completely truthful here

Thank you Adje for supporting what I had noticed myself. Yes, first it was just the Obama posts that were deleted almost immediately. The pro Romney stuff stayed. Then it was ANYTHING political for either side that was deleted. Then, yesterday, Meat started playing THE WORD GAME - posting the definition of words that people had used against him. Of course that would only serve to get people going again, especially if it was one of your own words Most of those posts from yesterday were deleted, except for the few pro Romney ones. Then the debate continues here after he insults the fans. LOL. Yes, I am amused by it all actually. I am still looking forward to hearing the new album!

[carole]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree most don't deserve it , but I had to start the fight to find the real enemies. When it ends the real fans will still be here and I will do something special for them . Was thinking when I came on that was going to invite all here to a dress Rehearsal in April. I would say 97% will be invited.
Meat

Wow Meat, that would be a dream come true. If I can find a way, I will be there!!!!!

Carole

[ricgough]

I too am a lifelong fan, I believe personal politics has no bearing on ability as a performer and will judge based on the artistic output and basic humanity of a person or group rather than political affiliation. However, many fans, and I am one of them do not agree with Romney's (or more widely the current incarnation of Republican political ideology) - and in some (not necessarily all) areas find specific aspects of that abhorrent. (For the record I would cast myself as a centrist libertarian with no particular natural affiliation - for example I would look to history and proven, academically based economic theory for a solution for deficit reduction and economic growth (see John Keynes, IMF) before a right-wing, gaffe prone politician with overriding ideological, partisan and lobbyist agenda's anyday!). Where is the modern-day F.D. Rooseveldt when you need him!

When a culturally relevant recording artist puts his head above the parapet publicly then there is always going to agreement or disagreement on this amongst fans, the press and general populous. That should surely be part of the risk assesment for any business or cultural entity (and Meat, you are one of those too!) before any endorsement takes place. As an economic liberal who believes in a free market then the onus is upon that particular organisation, rather than the paying customer to provide an appropriate service and not alienate it's market base. You are in a cultural industry and that makes such political considerations relevant to your public standing, overall popularity and ultimately economic success or failure. We are discussing this in critical terms because I think we all wish you success. I certainly do. Unless you had strong market research suggesting a strong republican leaning, or had built a career based on conducive political artistic content (e.g. Dylan, Springsteen etc...) then there was always going to be a political risk to this endorsement.

I have close friends who vote very differently from me (in some cases diametrically so!) and frankly, I see the strength of a relationship in that we can row over it and agree to disagree,with personal bonds being unshaken as a result of the debate. This is where many on here have got it wrong over the last few days in my opinion.

I also may have my own opinions on artistic output which may of not be comfortable reading, but before I can hate or dislike something I have to either love or at least like it first and foremost. I don't have feelings for things I have no emotional connection to. This is often take as read by members posting due to the fact they actually spend their time in honour of a man and his music. This is not always tangible in specific posts. There is tacit approval of you and your career, your artistic output and personal likeability in the fact they are here in the first place and care enough to have an opinion first and foremost.

I feel there is mitigation on behalf of most posters here, but also Meat who obviously cares deeply about his fans and works incredibly hard to satisfy their demands.

I just wish all would simply read what they propose to say, re-read it and if they are still willing to post after consideration of others then so be it. That said, I think if that were always the case, most of the inflammatory stuff found on the web would not be posted, and the world would be a better place. That is down to personal responsibility on all sides.

I have loved Meat down the years and always will, but equally have enjoyed some performances more than others and feel some albums have greater longevity than others. On balance I love more than I hate and I believe that must be the the case for 97% of those here, even if I and others can sometimes be critical over specific points at times.

I hope I am regarded as a friend rather than an enemy, but will speak my mind if I feel the need to do so. That is all of me.

Take it or leave it as is your right.

[Evil Ernie]

Wow.

This... is the only thing I hate about ML. Love his music, don't care much about his politics. Here is on an internet forum typing things that I would expect from a 14 year old girl.

Pretty hard to not say that ML is a very immature 65 year old.

Oh, and for the record I don't hate him. But if he keeps this bullshit you may force me to start looking at his music differently.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by LuuuuvMeat

Hypocrite isn't the same as homophob.

Just saw this. Never suggested they were the same. My English is pretty good I simply referred to the word being used to suggest Meat's actions and words over the years were false because he had endorsed Romney

Caryl

[wolfy35]

Some of the comments posted here over the last few days provide reason enough why I do not post here more often.

Meat is entitled to his own opinions, beliefs and alliances & people here should respect that irrespective of their own. There can be no excuse for some of the personal attacks I have read here over the last few days & I hope that the people who have made them hang their heads in shame.

So what if Meat has an off day vocally, it happens, Meat has never tried to say he is perfect far from it often he will beat himself up considering a performance below his best when everyone else says it was amazing.

I am not American nor do I have more of an understanding of the Obama/Romney election any more in depth than it is covered on UK news programs but does that really matter? Meat is American and he has chosen to make his feelings known by publicly supporting one of the candidates. That is not only his own personal choice but his right under the freedom that we all enjoy, something that we should all feel grateful that we have because there are many countries around the world where people are told what their choices are and if they disagree they are reminded at gunpoint.

I have been a Meat Loaf fan since I was given a copy of BOOH at 7 years old & I will remain a fan for as long as I live. Meat has given me more joy and hope through his music than I can ever find words to explain & he has asked nothing in return, Instead I choose to stay loyal and I am proud to say that I always will.

[The Flying Mouse]

Downloading music discussion moved here

Sorry to be a bit on top of things folks, but that's an issue that I know will spark big discussion, and this thread has plenty already

[Mr. Happy]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

OK, last chance saloon for this thread.

The subject is Meat's post here aimed at his critics concerning the voice thread and his endorcement.

Could not care less about the endorsement. Who Meat supports is his own decision.

To call 97% of the people here haters for posts like those in the voice thread is pathetic. I was expecting that thread to be a nightmare when it first started, but it turned out very respectful and thoughtful. How can you possibly get offended at something like that?

Aaaaaaand that's my contribution to this pile of

EDIT: No, actually, one more thing. This is really an amazing way to spread excitement about the fact you have a new album coming out and make people want to buy it. Really, it is.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

97% of you can go to hell , don't buy my CD, don't buy tickets ... stay away from me .
You come to a meet and greet I will have you removed from the room and the building with your money back !!

Hey, I just thought of something.

If you wanted to meet ML but couldn't afford it you could just buy a M&G pass, meet ML, tell him that you saw his post on mlukfc, that you ARE one of the 97% and have them escort you out with your money back.



A ridiculous statement deserves to be mocked as such.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

Could not care less about the endorsement. Who Meat supports is his own decision.

To call 97% of the people here haters for posts like those in the voice thread is pathetic. I was expecting that thread to be a nightmare when it first started, but it turned out very respectful and thoughtful. How can you possibly get offended at something like that?

Aaaaaaand that's my contribution to this pile of

I see that thread got deleted.

It's amazing how an insightful thread gets deleted yet THIS thread, with ML creating posts with sweeping, leaping judgements remains.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

It's amazing how an insightful thread gets deleted yet THIS thread, with ML creating posts with sweeping, leaping judgements remains.

Because music doesn't seem to matter anymore. You're obviously regarded as an "enemy" if you dare to discuss anything related to Meat Loaf's work in depth. Making mischief among people who actually should share a common interest seems to have become some people's main objective instead.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Hey, I just thought of something.

If you wanted to meet ML but couldn't afford it you could just buy a M&G pass, meet ML, tell him that you saw his post on mlukfc, that you ARE one of the 97% and have them escort you out with your money back......

A ridiculous statement deserves to be mocked as such.

now you just ruined my plan to get a free M&G for the next tour! LOL

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Because music doesn't seem to matter anymore. You're obviously regarded as an "enemy" if you dare to discuss anything related to Meat Loaf's work in depth. Making mischief among people who actually should share a common interest seems to have become some people's main objective instead.

That's why I generally don't want to know too much about an artist. It may sound cheesy, but they should try to be larger than life. They should try to be mysterious. They may make some opinions known, but the cool ones make any comments that they make insightful and they leave the audience wanting more. And nothing as lame as politics. I'm not saying ML isn't cool overall, but endorsing MR takes him down a peg on the 'coolness' factor because MR is about as Lame and disconnected from the general public as you can get.

That's why I like an artist like Axl Rose or Prince. They may both be batshit crazy, but when they speak or make an appearance people take notice because they're so elusive and hard to get ahold of.

The best ones know that the office of POTUS is just a charade that the American public goes through every 4 years and there is very likely to be any change unless something MAJOR happens. Bill Hicks sums it up nicely here:

YouTube Video

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

To call 97% of the people here haters for posts like those in the voice thread is pathetic.

... and hypocritical, no one here has come close to the rudeness, disrespect and hatefulness ML has displayed to the '97%'. Anyone else posting like this would have been deleted, infracted and banned.

I do understand because its ML, and because this site is dedicated to him, that special allowances are made ... but are there any other examples of an artist alienating their fan base in such a way ?

To then pass this off as some kind of ruse to expose his 'enemies' is equally pathetic. The general out pouring of 'love' on this site in relation to the new album and tour suggest that there are no 'enemies', only the ones that exist in ML's head.

I really wish ML did not post here, as his presence stops any kind of sensible debate about his music, career or politics. Its like treading on egg shells unless you're posting unquestioning adoration. If people want to interact with him why can't they do it on Facebook ?

It would be better for ML as at least he can retain editorial control where here, because he can only 'influence' it, this site only appears enrage him (... and all too frequently ...)

Sad.

[Gez]

Not long back from America. My relatives in CA think nothing has changed with Obama so maybe a new President isn't a bad thing......I'll sit with popcorn on Tues/Wed with HIAHB blasting out and a wee beer of course :)