Patti Russo

[Dick]

We must have been typing at the same time. But you articulated it better than me. But that’s what I’m getting at too.

Shall we combine posts? Lol

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead

Look, I'm not being funny here but you and Patti seem to have continuously over the past while hinted at things and dropped tidbits here and there and it's wearing thin.

My primary stance with anything like this is to believe victims, if someone comes out and says something then absolutely give them benefit of the doubt and investigate where it should be investigated. Two sides to a story, but where there is smoke there is fire and all that.

Now this is a touchy subject because Meat has tragically passed on, and he can't defend himself anymore and I don't want to see his family brought into anything either. We all probably know Meat wouldn't have been a saint in his lengthy career, we've all seen how he could act on here, we have heard stories about his temper or seen his social media posts. I don't doubt Patti had a hard time during her career with him and I sympathise with it.

But I'm finding this act of dropping hints/tidbits and vagueries, almost like a "Listen on and all shall be revealed" to lure people in to be a bit disrespectful. If there is something to say, it should have been said by now, not strung out as it has been.

---

Also as far as the insults towards Patti go, wishing death on people is 100% never acceptable and no one should have to face that.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead

Look, I'm not being funny here but you and Patti seem to have continuously over the past while hinted at things and dropped tidbits here and there and it's wearing thin.

This may come as a surprise, but Patti and I are not joined at the hip. Her views are her views. My views are my views. They don't always align.

The (obvious) intention behind Kitchen Sink (at least, within its initial season) was to give Patti a platform on which to speak her mind about the events that she has faced throughout her career as a world class vocalist. Blow by blow, piece by piece, just as it happened in real life.

We only got up to 1994.

Let that 'sink' in.

The trauma that she has suffered can't be explained in a soundbite, and Patti has no intention of becoming a professional 'victim'. Any questions about this should be directed towards Patti, and not me, as I wouldn't want to speak on her behalf. It is, as always, on her own terms.

For my part, I tried to balance the above out with entertainment, insight, and a glimpse into the archives that fans would not otherwise have been aware of.

Sadly, that ship has now sailed.

There will be no more Kitchen Sink in its current form (the Meat and Jim aspect was intended to run for ten episodes before expansion into other areas).

Not a fan of what we're doing? Answer's simple.

Stop listening.

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead

I'm finding this act of dropping hints/tidbits and vagueries, almost like a "Listen on and all shall be revealed" to lure people in to be a bit disrespectful. If there is something to say, it should have been said by now, not strung out as it has been.

The idea wasn't, and never has been, to 'out' anyone. I would've thought that this was obvious by all of the tip-toeing around we have had to do (to lengths you would not believe) in order to preserve reputations (let this sink in, also), avoid potential lawsuits, and keep the peace. When I met Patti she wasn't in a good place. Speaking about it, via this vehicle, has helped. You may not see that, but you see less than 10% of real life (for instance, the common conception that Meat and Jim 'loved each other' is far from the truth. It's a shame, but it's simply untrue unless it happened post stroke #9, whereupon I wasn't around and wasn't involved).

I'm more than happy for people on this forum to ask questions. To contest what they hear. It's the only healthy way to live. Question everything. But do it with intelligence. Read between the lines, and realize why, sometimes, those lines exist in the first place. Patti isn't going to lie to you. I'm certainly not going to lie to you. Kitchen Sink is a non profit, no personal gain platform. Sadly, this leg of the journey has ended prematurely. Losing Jim, and with Meat's sudden passing, it can't be any other way.

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead

Also as far as the insults towards Patti go, wishing death on people is 100% never acceptable and no one should have to face that.

On this we can agree.

[sandmage]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

Not a fan of what we're doing? Answer's simple.

Stop listening.



The idea wasn't, and never has been, to 'out' anyone. I would've thought that this was obvious by all of the tip-toeing around we have had to do (to lengths you would not believe) in order to preserve reputations (let this sink in, also), avoid potential lawsuits, and keep the peace. When I met Patti she wasn't in a good place. Speaking about it, via this vehicle, has helped. You may not see that, but you see less than 10% of real life (for instance, the common conception that Meat and Jim 'loved each other' is far from the truth. It's a shame, but it's simply untrue unless it happened post stroke #9, whereupon I wasn't around and wasn't involved).

I'm more than happy for people on this forum to ask questions. To contest what they hear. It's the only healthy way to live. Question everything. But do it with intelligence. Read between the lines, and realize why, sometimes, those lines exist in the first place. Patti isn't going to lie to you. I'm certainly not going to lie to you. Kitchen Sink is a non profit, no personal gain platform. Sadly, this leg of the journey has ended prematurely. Losing Jim, and with Meat's sudden passing, it can't be any other way.

When Jim died I was very happy about The Kitchen Sink Episode. I did listen and felt welcome at this virtual fire side chat.
When it went on about auditioning and touring I also listened and I spent some time last year letting all that sink in. It didn't doubt it. I had always wondered why Patti was "looking for a boyfriend in Australia" in these weird unexpected subtitles on the Melbourne Symphony DVD. Appears to be a little inside joke from Meat that's true meaning has now become clear. If my boss did that to me, I'd feel hurt. No doubt. Especially since that was almost ten years after the original event.
But, if it was bad to the extend that "Meat was the true cause of her problems", Patti could have left.
When Meat died, and Pattie tweeted her tweets I looked close at what the Kitchen Sink might do. I was irritated, because I was no longer sure what her intentions are and where this was going. As a fan, listening to all this I feel like I am called out to be a judge on something I have no insight in, cannot veriefy any facts. And I hate being in this position. The only facts I had was, Pattie holds a grudge against Meat's wife, and she was fired via Email... And Meat is dead. And I am a fan since the mid 90ies. And I want to enjoy some concert videos and listening to Meat's music. And in doing so Patti is everywhere. And I cannot stop thinking about what was sayed on The Kitchen Sink. So I waited, would would they do? And then the Kitchen Sink uploaded a parody video. And at that point it became very clear what was going on. You want attention through this. You couldn't release a sincere video stating that you would pause for six month and then continue saying what you need to say. By all means do what you must. No, a parody video right after he died. You wanted to draw attention to yourselves at the most unapropriate of times. Because you're plan of revealing bits of information and innuendos here and there was spoiled through Meat's sudden death.

The above quote is again, full of innuendos. Do you think anyone who follows Meat and Jim for some time actually thinks Meat and Jim were best friends? Well, one thing they did was keeping private grudges out of the public eye (Except for the lawsuit), because for their fans their lifes and careers are intertwined. There is no Meat without Jim, and there is no Jim without Meat.

Well, it'd be my guess, you were eventually trying to turn this into a book. You probably still are. Maybe at some point Patti would have gone to the press with accusations and you would have followed up with the inside story.
What I read out of Patti insulting Meat's wife after he died is:
Meat married the wrong women and she now tried to damange the reputation of the man who rejected her. I see Meat and Patti had real chemistry in all the performances that I can see. Whether I'm right or wrong you ask me to "read between the lines" that's what I read. Sincerely, this is the message that I get.
That's what I now think about Patti because of your Podcast.

I wish Patti the best. I hope she gets real therapy. Doing therapy in the public might not be the wisest thing to do. It incentivises holding that grudge, not letting it go. But then you wouldn't get the details, right?

[letsgotoofar]

While I'm not picking sides here, it is important to note that sandmage joined in June 2021, and has only posted three times on this forum -- all of them in this thread and all of them to cast a negative light on Patti. Granted, she doesn't need their help, but be aware of what I've just said, as it certainly smells fishy to me.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by sandmage

When Jim died I was very happy about The Kitchen Sink Episode. I did listen and felt welcome at this virtual fire side chat.
When it went on about auditioning and touring I also listened and I spent some time last year letting all that sink in. It didn't doubt it. I had always wondered why Patti was "looking for a boyfriend in Australia" in these weird unexpected subtitles on the Melbourne Symphony DVD. Appears to be a little inside joke from Meat that's true meaning has now become clear. If my boss did that to me, I'd feel hurt. No doubt. Especially since that was almost ten years after the original event.
But, if it was bad to the extend that "Meat was the true cause of her problems", Patti could have left.
When Meat died, and Pattie tweeted her tweets I looked close at what the Kitchen Sink might do. I was irritated, because I was no longer sure what her intentions are and where this was going. As a fan, listening to all this I feel like I am called out to be a judge on something I have no insight in, cannot veriefy any facts. And I hate being in this position. The only facts I had was, Pattie holds a grudge against Meat's wife, and she was fired via Email... And Meat is dead. And I am a fan since the mid 90ies. And I want to enjoy some concert videos and listening to Meat's music. And in doing so Patti is everywhere. And I cannot stop thinking about what was sayed on The Kitchen Sink. So I waited, would would they do? And then the Kitchen Sink uploaded a parody video. And at that point it became very clear what was going on. You want attention through this. You couldn't release a sincere video stating that you would pause for six month and then continue saying what you need to say. By all means do what you must. No, a parody video right after he died. You wanted to draw attention to yourselves at the most unapropriate of times. Because you're plan of revealing bits of information and innuendos here and there was spoiled through Meat's sudden death.

The above quote is again, full of innuendos. Do you think anyone who follows Meat and Jim for some time actually thinks Meat and Jim were best friends? Well, one thing they did was keeping private grudges out of the public eye (Except for the lawsuit), because for their fans their lifes and careers are intertwined. There is no Meat without Jim, and there is no Jim without Meat.

Well, it'd be my guess, you were eventually trying to turn this into a book. You probably still are. Maybe at some point Patti would have gone to the press with accusations and you would have followed up with the inside story.
What I read out of Patti insulting Meat's wife after he died is:
Meat married the wrong women and she now tried to damange the reputation of the man who rejected her. I see Meat and Patti had real chemistry in all the performances that I can see. Whether I'm right or wrong you ask me to "read between the lines" that's what I read. Sincerely, this is the message that I get.
That's what I now think about Patti because of your Podcast.

I wish Patti the best. I hope she gets real therapy. Doing therapy in the public might not be the wisest thing to do. It incentivises holding that grudge, not letting it go. But then you wouldn't get the details, right?

I can see that I'm up for a real intellectual game of chess with this one.

Let's simplify.

Strawman arguments, and ad hominem attacks (see also: 'making things up'), say more about you than they do about anyone else.

You're better than this.

Be better.

[ThatWriterGuy]

To address several issues:

1. If Patti wanted to 'expose Meat' via the media for an enormous sum of money, it would have been done already. Years ago. There was plenty of opportunity. Last week Patti was contacted by, more or less, 30 reporters and offered a live spot on BBC breakfast news. She graciously declined.

2. After the news broke officially of Meat's passing, Kitchen Sink lit a candle and played the last few moments of music that both Meat and Jim released together in true collaboration. The Hale and Pace video was uploaded on request of the original channel. We had used a small clip in the past. After ten years active the video was claimed under ITV copyright in the UK. The original channel asked if we would reupload for various territories. Since several members of the NLE particularly like this clip, I agreed, and took the clip down within an hour as copyright was indeed claimed in several territories. End of saga.

3. Patti and I have been friends for a couple of years. We talk on the phone most every day. I knew everything there was to know about her story before the concept of Kitchen Sink ever existed, and she knew every detail of mine. No matter how much you want there to be, there is no personal gain and you will not contrive a situation whereupon you pit one party against another and sow division. Honestly, it's as transparent as ... a transparent thing.

4. The rest, sadly, is just bad fan fiction.

[ajf33]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

This may come as a surprise, but Patti and I are not joined at the hip. Her views are her views. My views are my views. They don't always align.

The (obvious) intention behind Kitchen Sink (at least, within its initial season) was to give Patti a platform on which to speak her mind about the events that she has faced throughout her career as a world class vocalist. Blow by blow, piece by piece, just as it happened in real life.

We only got up to 1994.

Let that 'sink' in.

The trauma that she has suffered can't be explained in a soundbite, and Patti has no intention of becoming a professional 'victim'. Any questions about this should be directed towards Patti, and not me, as I wouldn't want to speak on her behalf. It is, as always, on her own terms.

For my part, I tried to balance the above out with entertainment, insight, and a glimpse into the archives that fans would not otherwise have been aware of.

Sadly, that ship has now sailed.

There will be no more Kitchen Sink in its current form (the Meat and Jim aspect was intended to run for ten episodes before expansion into other areas).

Not a fan of what we're doing? Answer's simple.

Stop listening.



The idea wasn't, and never has been, to 'out' anyone. I would've thought that this was obvious by all of the tip-toeing around we have had to do (to lengths you would not believe) in order to preserve reputations (let this sink in, also), avoid potential lawsuits, and keep the peace. When I met Patti she wasn't in a good place. Speaking about it, via this vehicle, has helped. You may not see that, but you see less than 10% of real life (for instance, the common conception that Meat and Jim 'loved each other' is far from the truth. It's a shame, but it's simply untrue unless it happened post stroke #9, whereupon I wasn't around and wasn't involved).

I'm more than happy for people on this forum to ask questions. To contest what they hear. It's the only healthy way to live. Question everything. But do it with intelligence. Read between the lines, and realize why, sometimes, those lines exist in the first place. Patti isn't going to lie to you. I'm certainly not going to lie to you. Kitchen Sink is a non profit, no personal gain platform. Sadly, this leg of the journey has ended prematurely. Losing Jim, and with Meat's sudden passing, it can't be any other way.



On this we can agree.

So, are you saying that, Patti's story with regard to her time with Meat is now done, and anything else you put out will be more on what Patti is up to, or along the lines of your (I thought rather good) Queen video?

To be honest I think you're left with really three choices,

1. End Patti's tale of her time with Meat now, and move on to something else.

2. Continue the tale, but stop before the events Patti has alluded to, as, it does seem she did have a long period with time where there were few, if any problems, she could reminisce about.

or 3. Continue as planned and risk a backlash as there's now no way to hear Meats side (Tho i doubt he'd have told it anyway even if he hadn't passed, given he's not said anything about it since the "story broke" (for want of a better phrase)

Even after Patti started her "attack" on meat on twitter, he has remained nothing but complimentary about her, I remember a radio interview he gave where he described her as a fantastic co singer, and that was after Patti had started tweeting.

I get the impression from the word go, Meat wasn't going to get drawn into a war of words with Patti,

When Patti started posting on the other thread on here, I did manage to exchange a few messages with her, while I was trying to safisfy myself that the poster on here was indeed Patti, and she did come across as someone who was trying to shed a few demons .

So what are the plans for the Kitchen Sink going forward? (If you don't mind me asking)

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by ajf33

So, are you saying that, Patti's story with regard to her time with Meat is now done, and anything else you put out will be more on what Patti is up to, or along the lines of your (I thought rather good) Queen video?

To be honest I think you're left with really three choices,

1. End Patti's tale of her time with Meat now, and move on to something else.

2. Continue the tale, but stop before the events Patti has alluded to, as, it does seem she did have a long period with time where there were few, if any problems, she could reminisce about.

or 3. Continue as planned and risk a backlash as there's now no way to hear Meats side (Tho i doubt he'd have told it anyway even if he hadn't passed, given he's not said anything about it since the "story broke" (for want of a better phrase)

Even after Patti started her "attack" on meat on twitter, he has remained nothing but complimentary about her, I remember a radio interview he gave where he described her as a fantastic co singer, and that was after Patti had started tweeting.

I get the impression from the word go, Meat wasn't going to get drawn into a war of words with Patti,

When Patti started posting on the other thread on here, I did manage to exchange a few messages with her, while I was trying to safisfy myself that the poster on here was indeed Patti, and she did come across as someone who was trying to shed a few demons .

So what are the plans for the Kitchen Sink going forward? (If you don't mind me asking)

We had decided, some time ago (hence no uploads) that it would be option 1. Given the recent news, it remains as option 1.

As for Meat's response, or lack thereof, what you see in public is not what goes on in private. Tired of the nature of this, Patti replied publicly. Again, if you want to follow this one up, please follow up with Patti and not me

Glad that you enjoyed the Queen episode. We have some interesting guests coming up, should the tide turn that way.

[ajf33]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

We had decided, some time ago (hence no uploads) that it would be option 1. Given the recent news, it remains as option 1.

As for Meat's response, or lack thereof, what you see in public is not what goes on in private. Tired of the nature of this, Patti replied publicly. Again, if you want to follow this one up, please follow up with Patti and not me

Glad that you enjoyed the Queen episode. We have some interesting guests coming up, should the tide turn that way.

I must be honest, given recent events I think you've made the right decision (even if it was a decision made some time ago)

I do realise that public and private are two very different things, and can understand why Patti continued to tweet, in the hope (my impression) Meat's say something.

I hope Patti can find some kind of peace now, and move on, (I know that's sumit I should post to Patti, but for all I know she browses this thread, after all her user profile on here is still active)

I look forward to seeing what you have lined up on the kitchen sink, As a queen fan, I found your Queen episode enjoyable and informative, so will look forward to future shows, when time allows for you and Patti to get together.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by ajf33

I look forward to seeing what you have lined up on the kitchen sink, As a queen fan, I found your Queen episode enjoyable and informative, so will look forward to future shows, when time allows for you and Patti to get together.

Glad you enjoyed it

If schedules align we may have our good friend Rosalie Cunningham on next.

If you're not aware of Rosie's music, check her out.

She's extremely talented.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by ajf33

I hope Patti can find some kind of peace now, and move on, (I know that's sumit I should post to Patti, but for all I know she browses this thread, after all her user profile on here is still active)

Sorry to but into your sort of convo together but I agree with this very much.

The Patti I saw live in 2014 deserved a more substantial touring career from that point onwards. I REALLY thought she was just excellent and I enjoyed each show a lot (think I saw 4 in total on that tour).
It was also fun just seeing her perform the likes of I'd Lie For You solo. A lot of stuff just worked well and there was this sort of energy and freshness that deserved a full audience like we saw at the small O2 venue but was absent elsewhere.
However I think she needed to continue with that kind of quality experienced band I think and really build upon that and get those type of people involved in making some albums.

Bruce Springsteen said it best himself when he was always doing his fun long winded band introductions about "you can't get there by yourself."
I very much agree with that and I think this is why Meat Loaf was so excellent live. In fact Bruce himself I thought was incredibly boring to watch solo at Royal Albert Hall (I've been very fortunate to have seen all my musical heroes at RAH). Sure he was good but just not the fun party filled atmosphere he put on display elsewhere. EVEN when it was not his regular E Street band (the Seeger Session show at Wembley Arena in 2006 was magnificent in fact).

Some of my reactions to Patti's tweeting I can see in this very thread actually seem a bit harsh now that I am looking back myself. But so were her tweets at times I guess. They just came across as hand grenades as I pointed out.

In the end I want(ed) the best for Patti because when you can see an artist that can give you that euphoric feel during a live show you just want that to continue forever and the internet wars just become a bit of an annoyance to witness, EVEN if there is a very good reason for the tweets and posts.

I wish Patti the best and hope she will still release some great music and maybe I will still catch her live again some time.
It would be nice for sure.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

The Patti I saw live in 2014 deserved a more substantial touring career from that point onwards. I REALLY thought she was just excellent and I enjoyed each show a lot (think I saw 4 in total on that tour).
It was also fun just seeing her perform the likes of I'd Lie For You solo. A lot of stuff just worked well and there was this sort of energy and freshness that deserved a full audience like we saw at the small O2 venue but was absent elsewhere.
However I think she needed to continue with that kind of quality experienced band I think and really build upon that and get those type of people involved in making some albums.

Some context: the 2014 tour was done simply for the fun of it, without the involvement of management, etc. Since that time, Patti has been involved in a number of projects (including cutting a track that was considered for a recent Bond film, performing with Roger Taylor, etc), but in latter years felt little drive to both record and perform music, and, instead, concentrated on other areas of life. Music took a backseat for a while (despite a multitude of frankly amazing offers).

[sandmage]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

To address several issues:

1. If Patti wanted to 'expose Meat' via the media for an enormous sum of money, it would have been done already. Years ago. There was plenty of opportunity. Last week Patti was contacted by, more or less, 30 reporters and offered a live spot on BBC breakfast news. She graciously declined.

2. After the news broke officially of Meat's passing, Kitchen Sink lit a candle and played the last few moments of music that both Meat and Jim released together in true collaboration. The Hale and Pace video was uploaded on request of the original channel. We had used a small clip in the past. After ten years active the video was claimed under ITV copyright in the UK. The original channel asked if we would reupload for various territories. Since several members of the NLE particularly like this clip, I agreed, and took the clip down within an hour as copyright was indeed claimed in several territories. End of saga.

3. Patti and I have been friends for a couple of years. We talk on the phone most every day. I knew everything there was to know about her story before the concept of Kitchen Sink ever existed, and she knew every detail of mine. No matter how much you want there to be, there is no personal gain and you will not contrive a situation whereupon you pit one party against another and sow division. Honestly, it's as transparent as ... a transparent thing.

4. The rest, sadly, is just bad fan fiction.

Talking about strawman...

1. Never said for money. And, that was what last year, I genuinly feared would happen.

2. How was I supposed to know that?

Meat and Jim carefully kept their private lifes private. A month after Jim died, you break with inside stories that would never gotten out if he was alive.
I needed to know what kind of person you are. I've been a bit provocative, I know. But, now I know, thank you.

What I said above about what my guess would be? This is how it looks to me. If it is true, Patti would even have my sympathy for it, had she not started her "attacks" on Meat. But it is what I read between the lines. You are the one with all the facts. I know nothing, and never claimed to know. You give clues and innuendos and literally say one should read between the lines. And now you claim I made this up?

I hope that you keep your promise and respect Meat and Jim's private life in the future.

As for me having never contributed to this forum? The last time I wanted to start was before Braver was released. Meat presented his track listing. Someone posted links to all the original demos and ridiculed Meat's ability to sing. Meat eploded in the forum, and for my timezone the next day collapsed on stage.
I simply decided, that in this forum, I had nothing to add.

In most of my messages, I wished Patti well. And I continue to do so!
That negative light, dear ThatWriterGuy, was your making.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by sandmage

Talking about strawman...

1. Never said for money. And, that was what last year, I genuinly feared would happen.

2. How was I supposed to know that?

Meat and Jim carefully kept their private lifes private. A month after Jim died, you break with inside stories that would never gotten out if he was alive.
I needed to know what kind of person you are. I've been a bit provocative, I know. But, now I know, thank you.

What I said above about what my guess would be? This is how it looks to me. If it is true, Patti would even have my sympathy for it, had she not started her "attacks" on Meat. But it is what I read between the lines. You are the one with all the facts. I know nothing, and never claimed to know. You give clues and innuendos and literally say one should read between the lines. And now you claim I made this up?

I hope that you keep your promise and respect Meat and Jim's private life in the future.

As for me having never contributed to this forum? The last time I wanted to start was before Braver was released. Meat presented his track listing. Someone posted links to all the original demos and ridiculed Meat's ability to sing. Meat eploded in the forum, and for my timezone the next day collapsed on stage.
I simply decided, that in this forum, I had nothing to add.

In most of my messages, I wished Patti well. And I continue to do so!
That negative light, dear ThatWriterGuy, was your making.

You're certainly on a (t)roll today.

When I advocated for reading between the lines, I did so with the caveat of approaching those areas from an intelligent point of view based on the evidence available to you, left by the people who were there and involved at the time (and those who have spoken, at length, to the individuals involved at said time). You skipped that part and instead made up your own story. Well done. Have a cracker.

As for promises - I make no such promises to you about any of the above. I am free to discuss what I like, as I like, as it happened as pertains to the truth. The relevance here is that I see no merit in discussing this beyond what I have already discussed and disclosed thus far. This should be obvious. See point one again.

The editor in me offers this advice: You contradict yourself, openly, within your very first point above.

Bravo.

Feel free to point out the 'innuendos' within my original reply with regards to either Jim or Meat. As far as I'm aware, there are none, and as I must be aware in order to form innuendo, well, you can see where this is going.

So here we are. I'm here, telling you the truth as it is. You're here, insisting that there's some kind of conspiracy, that Patti needs a psychiatrist and had fallen in love with Meat Loaf, and that I'm out for personal gain.

I have only two responses to this:

1. You're a better fiction writer than I.

2. With all the love in the world: you're the one who needs the psychiatrist.

Make sure it's someone good.

[sandmage]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

You're certainly on a (t)roll today.

When I advocated for reading between the lines, I did so with the caveat of approaching those areas from an intelligent point of view based on the evidence available to you, left by the people who were there and involved at the time (and those who have spoken, at length, to the individuals involved at said time). You skipped that part and instead made up your own story. Well done. Have a cracker.

As for promises - I make no such promises to you about any of the above. I am free to discuss what I like, as I like, as it happened as pertains to the truth. The relevance here is that I see no merit in discussing this beyond what I have already discussed and disclosed thus far. This should be obvious. See point one again.

The editor in me offers this advice: You contradict yourself, openly, within your very first point above.

Bravo.

Feel free to point out the 'innuendos' within my original reply with regards to either Jim or Meat. As far as I'm aware, there are none, and as I must be aware in order to form innuendo, well, you can see where this is going.

So here we are. I'm here, telling you the truth as it is. You're here, insisting that there's some kind of conspiracy, that Patti needs a psychiatrist and had fallen in love with Meat Loaf, and that I'm out for personal gain.

I have only two responses to this:

1. You're a better fiction writer than I.

2. With all the love in the world: you're the one who needs the psychiatrist.

Make sure it's someone good.

Jesus, I don't think there's a conspiracy. You are a writer. Writers are in the business of writing. You befriend Patti. You collect stories. Eventually you probably are going to write a book. Well we'll see. It is what usually happens when a celebrity dies, and of course you're free to do that.

I can't wrap my head aroung why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife as her first public reaction. I conclude, her grudge is not really with Meat but with her. Whatever that might mean. I only tell you, this is how it looks to me. Originating from Patti directing curses at Meat's wife. She should not have done that. Everything else she did, I have no problem with. I onyl feared this might lead to a #metoo situation. Not necessarily for money. Please take also in account, that last year, I probably didn't read all you wrote in this forum and based this fear on limited information.

So you made no promises. So, we'll see about that book I think you will eventually write.

Patti needing a psychiatrist? It would be better than continuing to tweet, would it? Lot's of people have psychiatrists. You sayed I failed to see how Meat was the real source of her problems. Maybe she needs to talk about that with someone other than the internet.

In conclusion:

Please stop strawmanning me. It makes you appear to be a highly manipulative person.

[sandmage]

And since when is speculating about Meat, Jim or Patti wrong on this forum? It's literally what this forum is there for. Over on Jim's site, someone asks if Jim might have been into BDSM.
Nobody here knows the facts. Only you do. You say you and Petti would never lie to us. However, we all know that what Meat and Jim sayed wasn't always true. Not best friends. Only 10%... Nudge nudge, wind wink, say now more...

Yet I need a psychiatrist for saying how things appear to me.

I don't doubt you know the truth. I just needed to know what kind of person you are.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Ah, the old "I know you are so what am I" routine.

To address your points:

Writers write. Bakers bake. Candlestick makers ... you get the idea. It's amusing, but only because it's so willfully simplistic in its generalization. I'm a fiction writer, and other than things that directly relate to my life, I'm not interested in writing about the lives of others. Nor will I ever be. I can say this with as close to a 100 percent certainty as any reasonable person can give.

"I can't wrap my head around why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife".

Once again, therein lies your dilemma.

You could have simply asked. Instead, you acted like you were owed an explanation.

I've got news for you on that score: you're not.

This relates to all of your posts, both now and in the future.

Let's wrap up, because I'm busy and I imagine that you are too:

I've indulged you here because I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, I owe you nothing, and this particular brand of nothing is inclusive of both explanation and justifications. If you believe that this somehow entitles you to an endless back and forth based on the things that you have either blatantly made up, or erroneously inferred above, you are sadly, and seriously, mistaken.

So farewell, anonymous Internet friend.

I like the way you (t)roll.

[Guy]

Nick. If you speak to her most days can you ask her to come sing at my birthday party please.
Trying to twist her arm. 😉

[sandmage]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

Ah, the old "I know you are so what am I" routine.

To address your points:

Writers write. Bakers bake. Candlestick makers ... you get the idea. It's amusing, but only because it's so willfully simplistic in its generalization. I'm a fiction writer, and other than things that directly relate to my life, I'm not interested in writing about the lives of others. Nor will I ever be. I can say this with as close to a 100 percent certainty as any reasonable person can give.

"I can't wrap my head around why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife".

Once again, therein lies your dilemma.

You could have simply asked. Instead, you acted like you were owed an explanation.

I've got news for you on that score: you're not.

This relates to all of your posts, both now and in the future.

Let's wrap up, because I'm busy and I imagine that you are too:

I've indulged you here because I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, I owe you nothing, and this particular brand of nothing is inclusive of both explanation and justifications. If you believe that this somehow entitles you to an endless back and forth based on the things that you have either blatantly made up, or erroneously inferred above, you are sadly, and seriously, mistaken.

So farewell, anonymous Internet friend.

I like the way you (t)roll.

Goodbye to you, too.
Thank you for the insights you gave me. All the best to you and Patti.

[R.]

This thread needs a rest.