Another new album?

[Sue K]

[QUOTE=Sarge;514176]Sgt. Pepper[/I] just because of the individual songs, too, and not primarily because of the concept. QUOTE]

I bought the Sgt Pepper album (and btw ? I still have it ! ... lol ) because I was/am a fan of the Beatles ... ...

and sorries. I STILL can't the sh*ttin' quote thing right ... lol ...

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by tink

I bought the Sgt Pepper album (and btw ? I still have it ! ... lol ) because I was/am a fan of the Beatles ... ...

At least one member of this forum who appreciates the Beatles. Hm... let's see... maybe if Patrick was a Sergeant and his girlfriend was Rita, the meter maid, who has a sister who's "leaving home" to star in a Russ Meyer movie... Oh, I have an idea!

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Yes there are and most don't believe in the story as a convincing story. It's gobbledygook at best.

Why do I see a poll coming about?

[Devil's Son]

Originally Posted by Sarge

... Oh, I have an idea!

spirits help us, you hanging around too much with w

[Sarge]

Who says that he has the monopoly on crazy ideas?

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Sarge

At least one member of this forum who appreciates the Beatles. Hm... let's see... maybe if Patrick was a Sergeant and his girlfriend was Rita, the meter maid, who has a sister who's "leaving home" to star in a Russ Meyer movie... Oh, I have an idea!

At least one more here...Abbey Road is on my "Desert Island" list.

Unfortunately, somebody beat you to the movie, although your story would probably be better than theirs:



(I must confess, though, I loved the movie at the time because it came out at the height of my Peter Frampton obsession. )

[nikox1]

@ Sarge.

i know Rick Brantley had written some of the songs before hand, he even recorded them i think? but that does not mean Meat was not looking for that type of song to fit hes story idea? Peace on Earth fits right in with it? as does Living on the Outside? so there was clearly an idea before hand?
didnt Rob Cavallo say that he only wanted to keep 2 from the original 15?
so maybe the original songs didnt fit the story, hence Meat got people to write some new stuff.

American Idiot and Hang Cool Teddy Bear are more similer than you think?
Meat usually never states any political views, well not in public anyway?
i believe American Idiot can be seen by everybody as an anti war record, less obvious is HCTB perhaps? but i feel there is a similer story dug very very deep into HCTB. it creeps into alot of the songs. i think HCTB is written in a very clever way, the lyrics are far darker than what is usually found on a Meat record.

and the modern cd buying public in general are not very bright imo, you only have to look at the charts ,, they download 2 or 3 songs off an album.
so no they wouldnt have a clue what a concept album is? but that said i know there is still 20% of the buying public who still care about music.

HCTB was directed at a younger audience, and if it didnt work, well what can you do? but it was a new sound and image for Meat, and he took a risk?
but if it sold 10m copies and had hit singles, the world would not say anything against it, it would be seen as a master stroke with or without bloody Patrick? but record companys will only promote something with a bat or hell in the title, and thats why im so happy for Meat that he enjoyed it, and 50% of hes fans liked it so much. he made a record that he loved and wanted to make.

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by suzieq

I have a "what if" situation:

What if Meat never mentioned anything about the album being a concept album and never shared the concept/story? Do you think anyone would put two and two together on their own and say...you know, I think these songs tell a story?

I'm in the mindset that there are plenty of intelligent folks here and there have been some really good questions about songs, so it is very difficult for me to believe that no one in a days time, a weeks time, a months time etc, that would have asked ...is this HCTB an album that tells a story about something?

Meat provided that information up front, but it's not necessary to have the information to enjoy the album. So, if you are not "feeling" Patrick, ignore him.

very true!!! i mean i would never have imagined BAT 1 been based on songs from a future vision of Peter F**king Pan!!!! so it was kind of nice that Meat explained it, but alot of people would of got HCTB eventually in some way?
maybe not a Patrick, but perhaps a Joe or Ruth maybe?

[RSG]

Patrick actually was my big brother's name. He would have been 28 this year :) His birthday was last friday the 13th

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by RSG

Patrick actually was my big brother's name. He would have been 28 this year :) His birthday was last friday the 13th

thats sad news man, i will say a prayer, all the best.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by nikox1

i know Rick Brantley had written some of the songs before hand, he even recorded them i think? but that does not mean Meat was not looking for that type of song to fit hes story idea?

I don't think that he was specifically looking for that kind of songs from the beginning. I asked in another thread who exactly picked the songs / songwriters and why a particular song / songwriter was chosen. No one has been able to answer that question yet. It's also strange that he took songs that already existed, I already explained that that's usually not the way how a concept album is created. It's more like that ABBA musical - you take songs that have already been written and put them in a new context.

Originally Posted by nikox1

Peace on Earth fits right in with it? as does Living on the Outside? so there was clearly an idea before hand?

If someone had an idea, it was Brantley when he wrote the songs. Listen to his CDs and you'll notice that they sound more coherent than HCTB.

Originally Posted by nikox1

didnt Rob Cavallo say that he only wanted to keep 2 from the original 15?
so maybe the original songs didnt fit the story, hence Meat got people to write some new stuff.

Which would disprove what you said before about Meat allegedly already having a concept / story. At least it must have been a different concept in that case.

Originally Posted by nikox1

American Idiot and Hang Cool Teddy Bear are more similer than you think?

No, they aren't. Billie Joe had and idea and wrote songs supposed to convey it. Do you see one of the major differences now?

Originally Posted by nikox1

Meat usually never states any political views, well not in public anyway?

And he doesn't with HCTB either. HCTB ist not a political album. It doesn't hurt anybody. There is no political message. In fact, I think there is no message at all.

Originally Posted by nikox1

the lyrics are far darker than what is usually found on a Meat record.

I agree.

Originally Posted by nikox1

and the modern cd buying public in general are not very bright imo, you only have to look at the charts ,, they download 2 or 3 songs off an album.
so no they wouldnt have a clue what a concept album is?

Then I'm asking you a third time. Why bother to make a "concept" album, if you target a young, "stupid" audience?

Originally Posted by nikox1

HCTB was directed at a younger audience, and if it didnt work, well what can you do?

It didn't work because it hasn't been promoted in a way that appeals to young rock fans. There is no "coolness" factor, as The Doode would say.

Originally Posted by nikox1

but it was a new sound and image for Meat, and he took a risk?

Which is a bold move and I like that.

Originally Posted by nikox1

but if it sold 10m copies and had hit singles, the world would not say anything against it, it would be seen as a master stroke with or without bloody Patrick?

Maybe but it didn't sell that many copies. But I was not going to talk about sales or the quality of the album but discuss the question whether it's a concept album or not - and I stick to my opinion that it isn't.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I heard about that movie but I didn't know that Peter Frampton was involved.

Is it one of these "it's so bad that it's funny" movies?

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I heard about that movie but I didn't know that Peter Frampton was involved.

Is it one of these "it's so bad that it's funny" movies?

No, not really; in fact, I still like to watch it now and then. Peter Frampton was the lead- Billy Shears. They got the story by combining a bunch of songs, mostly from Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road.

The music is great, of course, and Steve Martin is even in it- he plays Dr. Maxwell Edison. Aerosmith is in it, as well. It's kind of fun.

Hmmmm, maybe I'll go watch it!

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by nikox1

maybe/maybe not? but bat 1 did f**k all for nearly a year? and then suddenly took off?

The fact that you're trying to compare Bat1 and HCTB completely gives you a failed argument on many levels.

[A Slice Of English]

Whether or not the songs were written to fit the story or whether the songs already existed, Meat has mentioned before that the songs were tweaked to fit the storyline a bit so there was some re-writing of certain lines. I think that the concept is a good one, personally, and whether or not you can feel the story running through the CD is largely irrelevant as the songs do flow well from one song to the next and I happen to think you can sense the movement in the story as you play the CD in its entirety.

Whether other people pick up on that I neither know nor care. Quite a few concept albums don't convey their actual "message" to the masses because the concept is not the overarching thing making someone enjoy an album usually. More often than not, it's the quality of the tunes and in HCTB, the production of the music is fantastic and for me it's simply a case of whether you enjoy certain songs or not.

So again, I think its irrelevant whether the songs were picked before, tweaked after or made to fit the concept, I feel the concept is fairly loose and prevents us from being restricted to ONLY thinking of the story throughout the album. There's way too much going on in HCTB to ONLY focus on the concept and I doubt Meat's original intent was for us to think purely of the concept as the songs are played anyway. I view the concept as an addition to the music, not the one thing governing the entire album.

And to criticise album sales and suggest the album isn't successful? The album is a success on a personal level for Meat, who has never been about the money anyway. Sure, he would love the album to be a massive success and who's to say that still won't happen? I love it and prefer it to anything Meat has done since Bat 2. That makes it a success for me and that is what counts, IMO. I don't much concern myself with album sales because that has nothing really to do with me.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by nikox1

HCTB was targeted at a younger audience, that is as clear as day.

Old duffers doing younger music is kinda like knowing your parents are still doing the horizontal mambo next door to your bedroom, there's something quite disturbing about it.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

The album is a success on a personal level for Meat, who has never been about the money anyway.

Sure, cos that's what pays the bills

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

And to criticise album sales and suggest the album isn't successful? The album is a success on a personal level for Meat, who has never been about the money anyway.

Didn't somebody post an article on here recently in which he complained about the promo in the U.S. and the fact that it failed to attract a younger audience?

[A Slice Of English]

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

Sure, he would love the album to be a massive success

You missed this part. It'd be counter-productive NOT to be interested in album sales as the artist, but why everyone round her focusses on it so much when it's nothing to do with them or whether you personally enjoy an album is beyond me.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

It'd be counter-productive NOT to be interested in album sales as the artist, but why everyone round her focusses on it so much when it's nothing to do with them or whether you personally enjoy an album is beyond me.

And you missed this part :

Originally Posted by Sarge

But I was not going to talk about sales or the quality of the album but discuss the question whether it's a concept album or not

Since when is nikox1 - who started a (Green-Day-related ) discussion on sales - everyone?

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

It'd be counter-productive NOT to be interested in album sales as the artist, but why everyone round her focusses on it so much when it's nothing to do with them or whether you personally enjoy an album is beyond me.

I'll go with that thought for a moment. If it's nothing to do with anyone what the album does regarding sales, why the hell was/is there a fan campaign to promote HCTB so hopefully it'll get MORE sales? And why do people get all giddy when Meat is on TV saying that they hope more people will go out and get the album, even more sales?

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

(I must confess, though, I loved the movie at the time because it came out at the height of my Peter Frampton obsession. )

OMG... wasn't he so CUUUTE in that film ? ... hehe ... I liked it, too, for what it was. I especially loved Billy Preston's rendition of Get Back, him in that suit dancing about ... HOTcha ... ... lol ...

[Sarge]

Sorry for getting off-topic for a short praise of a weird masterpiece.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

No, not really; in fact, I still like to watch it now and then. Peter Frampton was the lead- Billy Shears. They got the story by combining a bunch of songs, mostly from Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road.

I just watched it! What an oddity of a movie! One thing's for sure, neither the Bee Gees nor Frampton are actors - maybe that's why there is no dialog. (?) Never noticed how much Peter Frampton resembled Justin Hawkins before. (Must be the hair and the clothing...) The villain's vehicle with its Star Wars like interior - including singing (!) creepy robots! Steve Martin was hilarious, his character was a bit like the sadistic dentist he played in Little Shop of Horrors. Alice Cooper trying to strangle Robin Gibb! Aerosmith as the "Future Villains Band" or something like that. The logo of the record company is a big fat evil red pig! The brothers Gibb doing a poor Bruce Lee impression! Billy Preston was probably the only guy on earth who could fly through the air and dance around in a golden uniform without looking ridiculous. Liked the ending when all those famous singers, actors and Dame Edna (!) show up.

How about putting Patrick in that setting?

[allrevvedup]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Sorry for getting off-topic for a short praise of a weird masterpiece.



I just watched it! What an oddity of a movie! One thing's for sure, neither the Bee Gees nor Frampton are actors - maybe that's why there is no dialog. (?) Never noticed how much Peter Frampton resembled Justin Hawkins before. (Must be the hair and the clothing...) The villain's vehicle with its Star Wars like interior - including singing (!) creepy robots! Steve Martin was hilarious, his character was a bit like the sadistic dentist he played in Little Shop of Horrors. Alice Cooper trying to strangle Robin Gibb! Aerosmith as the "Future Villains Band" or something like that. The logo of the record company is a big fat evil red pig! The brothers Gibb doing a poor Bruce Lee impression! Billy Preston was probably the only guy on earth who could fly through the air and dance around in a golden uniform without looking ridiculous. Liked the ending when all those famous singers, actors and Dame Edna (!) show up.

How about putting Patrick in that setting?

Joe Perry from Aerosmith, said the industry joke about the soundtrack to that film was it shipped platinum and came back double platinum!


Aerosmith do a great version of Come Together but that's the most i've seen of it.

Anyway back to the new album...how about it as a tribute to Roadie and Travis?

[A Slice Of English]

Originally Posted by Pudding

I'll go with that thought for a moment. If it's nothing to do with anyone what the album does regarding sales, why the hell was/is there a fan campaign to promote HCTB so hopefully it'll get MORE sales? And why do people get all giddy when Meat is on TV saying that they hope more people will go out and get the album, even more sales?

There's fans and then there's people with way too much time on their hands, lol