Debate

[LucyK!]

Hold up, if the posts about the US politics have gone then I'm not 100% sure what the thread is about? I'm close to lost

(For the record I'm genuinely asking, not stirring!)

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

Hold up, if the posts about the US politics have gone then I'm not 100% sure what the thread is about? I'm close to lost

(For the record I'm genuinely asking, not stirring!)

The thread is about the issue of Meat's responce to the reaction to his endorcement, and the voice thread.

Arguing the pros and cons of the health bill among ourselves have got nothing to do with what Meat has said about his fans, and this forum.
It's a fan forum, not a political forum.

If folks want to debate politics, there are sites for that very purpose.
The mods on those sites are, I imagine, better informed of the facts and better qualified to handle that kind of debate.

Here it does nothing but muddy the water and give folks something else to argue over in what is already a very highly strung thread.

[ForeverInBat]

I simply cannot get past how easily Meat could turn on his own fans.

I idolised you Meat! I have never criticised you nor have I done anything for you to tar me with the same insults you directed at your fans on here. I have spent thousands of pounds to see and support you.

Well it ends today, I wouldnt speak to my dog the way you have spoken to us on here, regardless of what the circumstances are or were.

Im out!

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by MarkS

Honest question, how can we have a thread titled debates, but when two people are having a reasonably friendly debate on the political issue you run and delete it. We were not calling each other names, or using bad language towards one another, we were simply having a heated discussion on the issue? Doesn't really make much sense to me

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Honest answer? Because I didn't have a fecking clue what else to call it.
I had considered "Meat Vs MLUKFC" but it seemed a little on the nose.

[LucyK!]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

The thread is about the issue of Meat's responce to the reaction to his endorcement, and the voice thread.

Arguing the pros and cons of the health bill among ourselves have got nothing to do with what Meat has said about his fans, and this forum.
It's a fan forum, not a political forum.
.

Ok...so, for the sake of being clear, are you saying that people are allowed to post frankly and honestly what they think about what Meat said about the fans? That is what this thread is about?

[amethyst]

Meat Loaf ~ I really don't care if you think i'm in the 97% or the 3% ~ but you know what ~ what you said and how you said it was wrong, plain and simple.

I was there in London when you couldn't carry on with the show, I ~ with others, waited for hours outside for any news about you. I've spent money (money I can ill afford at times) on CD's from other countries just so I can hear them before they come out in the UK, bought tickets, bought merchandise and supported your charity. I've queued for hours just to have a few moments with you signing a CD.

Would I change anything ~ hell no!

I'm not complaining about the money i've spent, the time i've spent ~ i'd do it all again in a heartbeat, but you know what, you really really hurt people with what you said.

I came on here to find out about the new album and the UK tour, instead I found this and, to be honest, it sucks.

I hope you do the honourable thing and apologise to the people here, it would be a terrible shame if more people left because of it.

xxxx

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

Ok...so, for the sake of being clear, are you saying that people are allowed to post frankly and honestly what they think about what Meat said about the fans? That is what this thread is about?

From what I can see, that's what the thread is about, and that's what people have been doing.

The only editing done to the thread has been removing any political debate over issues like the health bill.
As I say, we've got plenty on our plate without a political argument on top of things.

[LucyK!]

Well in which case, Meat - I think what you've said is sh!t.

I love you to bits, that won't stop and I'll still go on tour because frankly I'm in this until the bitter end now but what you've said here is horrid.

There are people here with debts up to their eyeballs, people who haven't finished paying off the last tour before they're trying to book tickets for the next one. You may think that we forget you as soon as a tour is finished but we don't - for many people here, supporting you is quite literally a full time job which impacts heavily on their every day lives.

We're all human, we all make mistakes, get things right and get things wrong, but you got this one wrong I'm sorry to say.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

You want balls? I'll give you balls my dear...

Originally Posted by LucyK!

Well in which case, Meat - I think what you've said is sh!t.

I love you to bits, that won't stop and I'll still go on tour because frankly I'm in this until the bitter end now but what you've said here is horrid.

There are people here with debts up to their eyeballs, people who haven't finished paying off the last tour before they're trying to book tickets for the next one. You may think that we forget you as soon as a tour is finished but we don't - for many people here, supporting you is quite literally a full time job which impacts heavily on their every day lives.

We're all human, we all make mistakes, get things right and get things wrong, but you got this one wrong I'm sorry to say.

Now THIS is balls

Well said Lucy.

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

From what I can see, that's what the thread is about, and that's what people have been doing.

The only editing done to the thread has been removing any political debate over issues like the health bill.
As I say, we've got plenty on our plate without a political argument on top of things.

But some of us are interested in the US politics and how it differs from our own country, and Meat seemed willing to answer questions on it. I don't see a problem with that?

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by robgomm

But some of us are interested in the US politics and how it differs from our own country, and Meat seemed willing to answer questions on it. I don't see a problem with that?

Cool, ask Meat questions.

As for a free for all political debate, there are places on the web for that very purpose.

I said OK to questions about specific points of policy, because it's relevant to the candidate that Meat has endorced (and the one he didn't), and why it's a big deal.
Answering those questions using quotes, OK, fair enough, but personal opinion about your political views, post it on facebook rather than get into fights here about it.

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Honest answer? Because I didn't have a fecking clue what else to call it.
I had considered "Meat Vs MLUKFC" but it seemed a little on the nose.

While I appreciate an honest answer, I feel like you would make your job much easier if there were a clear stance on what this thread was for.

Perhaps a simple title like "Meat and the fans"

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

Well in which case, Meat - I think what you've said is sh!t.

I love you to bits, that won't stop and I'll still go on tour because frankly I'm in this until the bitter end now but what you've said here is horrid.

There are people here with debts up to their eyeballs, people who haven't finished paying off the last tour before they're trying to book tickets for the next one. You may think that we forget you as soon as a tour is finished but we don't - for many people here, supporting you is quite literally a full time job which impacts heavily on their every day lives.

We're all human, we all make mistakes, get things right and get things wrong, but you got this one wrong I'm sorry to say.

Lucy, money is irrelavant, people make their choice to do all those things or not. He knows we don't forget him, he's not daft.

Can't you see that this is all a culmination of many years and years of Meat bashing here on this site by the same old few, and finally Meat has snapped and decided to do something about it?

To be honest, whoever was offended by the 97% sentence (which was a fake number anyway as explained) probably deserves to be in it, because if you know you're a good fan, and a respectful person who shows consideration for Meats feelings when posting, then your instant reaction is, well he doesn't mean me so i'm not offended. That was my reaction and that's why I have no problem with Meat standing up for himself.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

A difference of opinion on politics is one thing, a difference of what you think of each other could indeed well lead to divorce.

EXACTLY! This isn't about a political opinion at all anymore. It is about bad, childish, uncalled for behaviour - from all sides! Some have tried to be respectful only to be insulted by the very artist whose music they adore. For any artist to insult almost its entire fan base is not cool. And if I were married to someone who continually insulted me & called me names, that would be considered verbal abuse and would be grounds for D-I-V-O-R-C-E!
Yes, I am now singing that country tune.

[Wario]

Meat please apologize. U can't lose Monstro or Neil or anyone else. Tell them u love em

[R.]

Jesus H Tapdancing Christ, can we stop the nitpicking for once?

It doesn't matter wether this thread's called "Debate" or "Marmite", because everyone involved knows what this is about. And if not, he or she will find out very easily by reading the 1st post. Just do as Neil requested and leave your political views out of the thread. Thank you.

And while you are thinking about a clever reply to this thread, I ask you to think about what may have caused the 1st post.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by MarkS

I feel like you would make your job much easier if there were a clear stance on what this thread was for.

Please, please, tell me you're joking

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

This is Meat responding to criticicm (real or perceived) over his endorcement of Mitt Romney, and to a lesser degree, the thread about his voice.

Yes, it's a rather political thread, but I think that in fighting over politics among ourselves does little else to muddy the water in a already (naurally) opinionated thread.

We can argue the larger points of politics all day, but I see this thread as a means for Meat to answer the concerns of his endorcement.
That's a big enough subject for us all.

If we want to debate general politics among ourselves there is off topic, or even better, forums elsewhere on the net devoted to the subject.

I think the best way to treat this thread is that Meat is on the podium, and we are asking him questions. It's where we have the right to ask him questions, and he has the right to reply.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Again, can we try to keep to the more general subject of the thread rather than debate politics amongst ourselves?
The thread is quite hot as it is IMHO.
Not to mention how fast it's going.

To paraphare a f*cking great song, baby we can debate and argue all night, but that ain't getting us nowhere.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Time for another clean up.
I was going to leave some of the polital debate posts up there, but people can't resist answering them.

Locked while i'm doing it.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

The subject is Meat's post here aimed at his critics concerning the voice thread and his endorcement.

It's not a general political debate.
There are sites for that kind of debate.

I've left some of the vids up, and a quote from Obama, because they are answering questions concerning the candidates. This has got at least some relevance here because Meat has made an endorcement.

So questions about policy, and direct answers to those questions using quotes from the candidate as source material, fair enough, but quit the in fighting on politics please.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Politcal in fighting deleted.

Again

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

The thread is about the issue of Meat's responce to the reaction to his endorcement, and the voice thread.

Arguing the pros and cons of the health bill among ourselves have got nothing to do with what Meat has said about his fans, and this forum.
It's a fan forum, not a political forum.

If folks want to debate politics, there are sites for that very purpose.
The mods on those sites are, I imagine, better informed of the facts and better qualified to handle that kind of debate.

Here it does nothing but muddy the water and give folks something else to argue over in what is already a very highly strung thread.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Cool, ask Meat questions.

As for a free for all political debate, there are places on the web for that very purpose.

I said OK to questions about specific points of policy, because it's relevant to the candidate that Meat has endorced (and the one he didn't), and why it's a big deal.
Answering those questions using quotes, OK, fair enough, but personal opinion about your political views, post it on facebook rather than get into fights here about it.

[jools35]

Well, i have not been active in these forums too much.
But i have followed then all the time.


I have read this thread in horror.

Each and everyone of us have views on politics-I bet i would disagree with a lot of people.
I might not like someones views or who they support, but i respect them for having views


Meats voice-

Even Meat has bad days-he has admitted it himself.

I was at the Cardiff gig with my housemate up in the upperdeck right at the back(my housemate is disabled)
Yes the sound was not great, but we had a great time.
I have seem meat 11 times live and would want to see him again- its going to be difficult due to money problems.
But as this his his last world tour, i would move heaven and earth to see him live once more.


MLUKFC - Meat Loaf United Kingdom Fan Club

Should be a place for fans to come and discuss Meat, the bank, and his music.

Yes there should be criticism allowed.
But from what i have seen way too much recently it HAS GOT TO PERSONAL

I love it that Meat takes take out to post on this forum
He does not have to.

Sorry for the long ramble, but things went to far on both sides.
Hopefully things will get better.


To Meat

Yes please for dress rehearsal tickets


Regards

Julian

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by R.

Jesus H Tapdancing Christ

Whoa!!

[Tomjoad]

Very different tone in Meat posts here. Like they are written by different persons. There are moments when he is obviously angry and writes insulting posts. Moments when he is calm and writes the way he ever did. I think he came up with the dress rehearsal invitation when he realized he went too far. Anyway let's hope that thing doesn't remain on paper

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Tomjoad

Very different tone in Meat posts here. Like they are written by different persons.

Sometimes I indeed wondered if it was really Meat considering those outbursts. Every time I met him in person he seems completely different.

[renegadeangel]

To be honest it really doesn't matter, Damage is done. Can't undo what never should have happened.
No one should have criticized Meat for his political beliefs, that's very personal and for him to openly support anyone takes a lot of courage especially someone from the entertainment industry. You want to debate his choice, fine PM him and he can answer you if he chooses.
The thread about his voice, poor taste again. How many times do we have to go through that? For the record, I think that every album he has released has been vocally great, in it's own distinctive way.
To go on about the differences, pointless.
If we really want to criticize and nitpick and micro analyze every last detail of everything he does, no doubt your going to get an explosion.
Everyone is human and subject to the same human emotions.
Cut the guy some slack, let him do what he does best
Entertain us

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

I think that every album he has released has been vocally great, in it's own distinctive way.

The studio vocals on his recent albums have been outstanding in my opinion. I didn't think the vocal thread would last long, but surprisingly it was Very positive actually but I guess it's maybe hard to hear most people think the best vocals are in the past. Sad it's gone though.

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by robgomm

Lucy, money is irrelavant, people make their choice to do all those things or not. He knows we don't forget him, he's not daft.

Can't you see that this is all a culmination of many years and years of Meat bashing here on this site by the same old few, and finally Meat has snapped and decided to do something about it?

To be honest, whoever was offended by the 97% sentence (which was a fake number anyway as explained) probably deserves to be in it, because if you know you're a good fan, and a respectful person who shows consideration for Meats feelings when posting, then your instant reaction is, well he doesn't mean me so i'm not offended. That was my reaction and that's why I have no problem with Meat standing up for himself.

Exactly!!! Well put,, my name is not 97%, so I took no offense to it. He got pissed and went a bit far perhaps!!

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Wow.

This... is the only thing I hate about ML. Love his music, don't care much about his politics. Here is on an internet forum typing things that I would expect from a 14 year old girl.

Pretty hard to not say that ML is a very immature 65 year old.

Oh, and for the record I don't hate him. But if he keeps this bullshit you may force me to start looking at his music differently.

I don't hate him either. I have always admired him. I do dislike some of his recent behavior. As you said it has been immature. at the very least. I will always love his music. It just speaks to my soul. That will never change. I will definitely be buying his next album.
AS far as going to a future live show, that will depend on his own behavior. As much as I love the music, I wouldn't feel right about supporting an artist who has in fact PERSONALLY insulted me! Don't forget there was an entire thread started by him specifically to respond to ME. Yes it was moved over to this thread. That makes this all very personal to me. I was singled out and PERSONALLY insulted by a very grown man who I had always admired and would expect better & more mature behavior from. I am not sure whether to laugh at the absurdity of it or cry because it hurt so much.
I did say some harsh things so I am a bit to blame. I was just expressing my feelings and even though I may have been harsh, I stand by the sentiment & truthfulness of what I said. As an artist who, by the very nature of his career, chose to live his life in the public eye, Meat should be better able & prepared to handle criticism from the public. Yes, he is human. Still to attack his fans and make it personal is unacceptable to me. Yes, it hurts
Obviously something I said, affected him on a deep level. If there was absolutely no truth to anything I said, I would think he would just ignore it and laugh it off. Usually people react like that when there is enough truth in what is being said to strike at the heart of the matter and touch a nerve.
Again, harsh or not, I do have "the balls" to stand by what I have said. You - both Meat and the rest of the fans - can agree or disagree with me. That is just how I feel.