New Todd Interview

[samurai7]

Todd has given an interview in today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/20...gren-interview

[Evil Ernie]

For those not wanting read the entire thing, here are the ML points.

In 1977 you produced Meat Loaf's Bat out of Hell, which you've described as a spoof of Bruce Springsteen …

A very successful spoof, yes. The actual number is contested although it is generally considered to be in the top five-selling albums of all time. I don't actually collect royalties for it any more. I decided to opt out – I wanted to move to Kauai and get this particular piece of property so I offered my "points" to Meat Loaf and Sony and said: "Just buy me out." So they did and that's why I'm living in Kauai right now. And I've never regretted that decision.

Presumably it was the most financially rewarding production you ever did?

Certainly. I originally took the job on under duress. Meat Loaf dumped his record label on the eve of us going into the studio and that meant I was the ultimate underwriter of the whole project. That's why in the end I did so well. By some estimation better than Meat Loaf and [songwriter] Jim Steinman.

Did you earn tens of millions?

Not quite that. But my very first royalty cheque was for three-quarters of a million. I haven't seen one like it since.

[AndrewG]

I can perhaps see why Meat wanted to make the next record with his hardworking touring band when you hear stuff like that.

I can see how Rundgren always comes to his "spoof of Bruce Springsteen" argument but at the same time I think diminishing the songs only down to that is a bit unfair. It's perhaps a bit weird for the original producer not to get more excited about the music in a more dramatic / poetic fashion in this case I'd say. It has more qualities than just being a spoof surely.

[Wario]

How can something be a spoof of something so inferior? Thats degrading. Springsteen is Springsteen.

Not the same level as the Loaf. How can Todd be so dismissive?

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Wario

How can Todd be so dismissive?

I dare say there are Springsteen fans who will ask you the same question.

Todd can be dismissive because he is a ~~~~. A very talented ~~~~, without who there would be no Bat Out Of Hell, but a ~~~~ nonetheless.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Wario

How can something be a spoof of something so inferior? Thats degrading. Springsteen is Springsteen.

Not the same level as the Loaf. How can Todd be so dismissive?

So, you're saying "Born to Run" is inferior? You're either trying to get a rise, or you're clueless.

Jim Steinman said it's one of his favorite albums ever.

Even Kasim has said Todd is sarcastic.

[AndrewG]

Todd's version of two out of three ain't bad is one of the worst bits of music I've ever heard in my life.

Hard to believe it is the same person who gave us Bat out of Hell!

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

So, you're saying "Born to Run" is inferior? You're either trying to get a rise, or you're clueless.

Jim Steinman said it's one of his favorite albums ever.

Even Kasim has said Todd is sarcastic.

I actually dont like springsteen

A rise? what? Just think comparing that to BOOH is ludicrous.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Wario

I actually dont like springsteen

A rise? what? Just think comparing that to BOOH is ludicrous.

Well I do think there are similarities in instrumentation and length of songs. Quite a few of Springsteen's early stuff were long songs with a wall of sound. That type of Phil Spectory thing. Moreover Springsteen's early lyrical themes I think were more fantasy inspired, certainly more poetic. Perhaps not similar to Steinman but certainly not a million miles away. Springsteen became more concerned with domestic every day life in his later stuff I'd say.
And of course Steinman used Roy Bittan and Max Weinberg on the record.
I can see how Bat out of Hell could be perceived to have been inspired by Born to Run (the songs) but I'm not sure if Bat was actually written before 1975. It probably was.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Wario

I actually dont like springsteen

A rise? what? Just think comparing that to BOOH is ludicrous.

If you don't like Springsteen, that's fair enough. But any semi-knowledgeable music fan would at least have respect for him as a musician, and for that album in particular.

And yes, I think you are trying to get a rise.

[LucyK!]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

And of course Steinman used Roy Bittan and Max Weinberg on the record.

Case and point. Bat Out Of Hell, and Bat II for that matter, would have been very different albums without Roy Bittan, and if you listen to any Springsteen you can hear the cross-over.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I urge anyone to listen to the piano introduction to Backstreets and you'll hear how "Meaty" it is...Bittan is a legend.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Well I do think there are similarities in instrumentation and length of songs. Quite a few of Springsteen's early stuff were long songs with a wall of sound. That type of Phil Spectory thing. Moreover Springsteen's early lyrical themes I think were more fantasy inspired, certainly more poetic. Perhaps not similar to Steinman but certainly not a million miles away. Springsteen became more concerned with domestic every day life in his later stuff I'd say.
And of course Steinman used Roy Bittan and Max Weinberg on the record.
I can see how Bat out of Hell could be perceived to have been inspired by Born to Run (the songs) but I'm not sure if Bat was actually written before 1975. It probably was.

I don't think Bruce got too Spectorish until BTR, actually; The Wild and Innocent was more Van Morrison inspired, I think.

I think you're right about the lyrics, though.

[Wario]

Born to Run and Night maybe..... a friend did tell me you could sing thunder road over a part in Took The Words and it would fit perfectly.

But the whole album sounds kinda tinny to me and underwhelming. I just dont see the resemblance to BOOH, only took the words stands out as maybe a little bruce-ish.

I see more of a resemblance to Prize Fight Lover.

[Sebastian.]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

And yes, I think you are trying to get a rise.

Yeah his opinion may be quirkey sometimes. But I sort of agree with him. I'll take Bat over BTR any day.

Also the last person on this forum to troll it to get any sort of rise out of somebody is Wario. He's the most harmless person on this forum. If what he said made you get slightly angry. I'd advise stepping away from the computer for just a short while.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Sebastian.

Yeah his opinion may be quirkey sometimes. But I sort of agree with him. I'll take Bat over BTR any day.

Also the last person on this forum to troll it to get any sort of rise out of somebody is Wario. He's the most harmless person on this forum. If what he said made you get slightly angry. I'd advise stepping away from the computer for just a short while.

Thanks Sebastian.
I don't think I'm harmless tho

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Wario

Born to Run and Night maybe..... a friend did tell me you could sing thunder road over a part in Took The Words and it would fit perfectly.

But the whole album sounds kinda tinny to me and underwhelming. I just dont see the resemblance to BOOH, only took the words stands out as maybe a little bruce-ish.

I see more of a resemblance to Prize Fight Lover.

To say you think they don't sound alike is one thing (for the record, I don't think they do that much, either), but to use terms such as "so inferior" and "degrading" is another. Apparently, Jim was so underwhelmed by the "tinny" sound that he got the same recording engineer.

The reason "Took the Words" sounds Bruce-ish is because it sounds "Spector-ish".

And "Prize Fight Lover" sounds like "My Lucky Day", a song off an album which many Springsteen fans consider to be his worst ever, so there you go.

Originally Posted by Sebastian.

Also the last person on this forum to troll it to get any sort of rise out of somebody is Wario. He's the most harmless person on this forum. If what he said made you get slightly angry. I'd advise stepping away from the computer for just a short while.

Oh, I did step away- I went for a nice long car ride with Bruce blasting. I feel much better now.

And I did get angry- he "dismissed" the most important album of Bruce's career, his masterpiece, which he slaved over for over a year. An album that means a lot to me personally.

Originally Posted by Wario

I don't think I'm harmless tho

I don't think you are, either.

You've said on other occasions that you like Springsteen at least a little, and now suddenly you don't? Seems odd to me.

I better stop now before I get worked up again.

[melon]

And here we go again....

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Forum Runner

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

To say you think they don't sound alike is one thing (for the record, I don't think they do that much, either), but to use terms such as "so inferior" and "degrading" is another. Apparently, Jim was so underwhelmed by the "tinny" sound that he got the same recording engineer.

The reason "Took the Words" sounds Bruce-ish is because it sounds "Spector-ish".

And "Prize Fight Lover" sounds like "My Lucky Day", a song off an album which many Springsteen fans consider to be his worst ever, so there you go.

Oh, I did step away- I went for a nice long car ride with Bruce blasting. I feel much better now.

And I did get angry- he "dismissed" the most important album of Bruce's career, his masterpiece, which he slaved over for over a year. An album that means a lot to me personally.

I don't think you are, either.

You've said on other occasions that you like Springsteen at least a little, and now suddenly you don't? Seems odd to me.

I better stop now before I get worked up again.

Ya my opinion of Bruce has changed a lot since then.

Wrecking ball is decent and I do like that record so I guess that's what u were referring to. But BTR not so much aha

[Mr. Happy]

Originally Posted by Wario

Born to Run and Night maybe..... a friend did tell me you could sing thunder road over a part in Took The Words and it would fit perfectly.

Ever since I discovered Bruce, Bat out of Hell (the song) has always sounded to me like a mashup of Thunder Road and Night. Up to the bike solo, it's a rocked up version of Thunder Road, then after that until the guy crashes and burns, it's Night. The verse of Took the Words is practically a rip off of the verse of Jungleland, too.

What's wrong with a Springsteen spoof anyway, even if it WAS true (which I'd contest, outside of the similarities above)? Good music is good music.

BUT BACK ON TOPIC. I don't think I've ever heard Todd say one positive thing about Bat out of Hell (the album), or seem even the slightest bit enthusiastic about it. I don't understand how you can possibly work on an album as legendary as Bat out of Hell and not be, at the very slightest, "Ok, that was a pretty cool thing I helped make." I find his whole attitude very bizarre, I can see why Meat might have had difficulty working with him from the way he portrays himself in interviews

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

BUT BACK ON TOPIC. I don't think I've ever heard Todd say one positive thing about Bat out of Hell (the album), or seem even the slightest bit enthusiastic about it. I don't understand how you can possibly work on an album as legendary as Bat out of Hell and not be, at the very slightest, "Ok, that was a pretty cool thing I helped make." I find his whole attitude very bizarre, I can see why Meat might have had difficulty working with him from the way he portrays himself in interviews

Exactly my thoughts. I see Meat getting entusiastic and emotional. I see Steinman getting enthusiastic and he has a very logical and intelligent mind about the construction of it all, the Wagner, the dynamics, the repetitive lines etc. I see Todd and I just think: man is this guy boring and sarcastic. And his own music sucks in my opinion.

[GDW]

This whole Todd topic is BS!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by GDW

This whole Todd topic is BS!

It would be nice if you could engage in a debate once in a while instead of delivering meaningless one liners.
Why is it BS? Why not care to explain if you are a Todd fan?

[GDW]

Bruce
Springsteen. Now you have 2 lines!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by GDW

Bruce
Springsteen. Now you have 2 lines!

The first line in the interview reads

In 1977 you produced Meat Loaf's Bat out of Hell, which you've described as a spoof of Bruce Springsteen …

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

I don't think I've ever heard Todd say one positive thing about Bat out of Hell (the album) ..... find his whole attitude very bizarre, I can see why Meat might have had difficulty working with him from the way he portrays himself in interviews

Agree with both of those points.

Agree with Andrew too. Meat's enthusiasm and emotion touches me; Jim's enthusiasm and logical explanations are always interesting; Todd's dry sarcasm reminds me that less is more .. a little can be amusing, but as a continuous way of being lacks wit and becomes a bore

However he was a key player in bringing the album into being, and I always appreciate that Meat pays him credit .. the bigger man

Caryl