Fan campaign discussion

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Twice actually. Once on the Radio 1 chart show and once on whatever the Pepsi Chart is called these days.

The iTunes Big Top 40 Show apparently.

forgot about the pepsi? true

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Rage Against

but did you volunteer to be a part of the effort when they asked for your help?

Sorry, i'm an active member of staff on this website, and devote a lot of my spare time to it.
What little time I have left between real life obligations, sleeping, and being on this forum, is the sad little remainder that i'm happy to call my life.
And sorry, at the end of the day you've got to have one so i'm not taking on any more staff duties at the moment

Originally Posted by Rage Against

I'm not now going to skewer them for what they've done.

Me neither.
I've just brought up two points that crossed my mind.
Posted in a clear, explanitary, and resectful way, you'd have to go quite a bit further to get into "skewering" country.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

All they're asking you to do is join a group on Facebook,

Which I did yesterday (even though i'm not a big backer of this cause, support for Meat is support for Meat.Hard habit to break )

Originally Posted by Rage Against

promote the campaign

I'm busy.
See above.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

and download the single.

No.
I haven't got the foggiest fecking clue how to dowload a song and put it on CD.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

If you don't want to support Meat then why are you here?

OK laughing boy, now you've crossed the line.
I don't support Meat?
Have you checked the joined date on my profile?
Although, for the eight years i've been here i've only been a member of the forum staff who keep this forum going for the past six years.
I don't support Meat, but I sing his songs for a living, promote his new albums/singles at my gigs, and say nothing but positive things whenever people come over to talk to me about him?
No offence to the other trib guys here, but how many of them come to this site every day and spend the time to try and give something back?
I don't support Meat but i've been to every concert i've been able to, spend god knows how much on tickets, albums, merchandise?

If you want to get into a "who's the biggest fan" pissing contest, you've picked the wrong boy.
Don't you EVER dare to try that shit on with me again

Originally Posted by Rage Against

And finally, it's not about teaching the record company a lesson.

Really?
I got that distinct impression.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

This is about making Meat and HCTB a success regardless of our feelings on record company politics.

And also regardless of the fact that i've never liked a Meat Loaf album less (although some of the songs are growing on me), yet i've spent more on this album than any other album.
What does that tell you?

Originally Posted by Rage Against

Let's stop picking at their efforts,

I haven't.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

stomping on what they've done

I haven't.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

give them a "Nice Job", "Damn Well Done"!!!!!!!

You usually say well done when you start seeing results.
Not before.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

Support the effort...that's what fans do!

I've told you, just do not go there!

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

And there's being positive and being constructive. Mouse was being constructive IMO.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

IMO, constructive criticism highlights the positive and negative while trying to affect change. IMO, that post was not trying to affect change.

If I was looking to make a change i'd say don't do it.
However, my ego isn't that big.
I merely brought up that, in all due respect, there was perhaps a down side to all of this.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

And what happened to that old saying, "If you don't have anything nice to say..."

The forum was invented.
It's a place where subjects can be discussed on both positive and negative points

Originally Posted by nikox1

Hello everybody!! yes it is a thread. and you all have freedom of speach.
and you can all have your say?

*Checks the forum rule book - moderators copy*
Yes, that is quite correct, and thank you for your permission.

Originally Posted by nikox1

but if you go to the top of this thread it states its looking for people to sign up and help? now you may have all seen the website? the facebook campaign? the posters? so unless you have signed up? thats all you know about the campaign? you do not know whats going on behind the scenes? you do not know how much hard work is going into this?
you do not know the future plans? if you have a question or need to know something? just give me a pm? and i have no problem with people debating?
feel free, but how can people debate something that they know nothing about? the thread was opened up to encourage people to sign up? sign up and help the campaign, what is there to debate? if you want to help then sign up? if you dont? i cant see how its worth coming to this thread for?
im not being rude or anything, but it makes no sense?
thank you,,

If you are going to talk about this on an open forum it will be talked about.
People will ask questions, people will make comments.
Both positive, and negative.
You have got to expect that.

And nothing I have said has been really that negative.
Have I said the song is shit?
Have I said that this will not work?
Have I told everyone involved to go get a life?

No.
I've said none of these things.
I have said that I don't believe that this will teach the record company anything.

I've asked if the autographs are kosher.
Because if people are promised them and they don't turn up, that will hurt Meat's reputation.
I have experience in this area.

Is that so bad?

Originally Posted by Rage Against

I don't know about you, but I know people who are constantly negative.

Then ignore those people.
I, on the other hand, am eternally positive about the Loaf.
I've spent a silly ammount of money on an album i'm not over the moon over because I will always support him.
He might not have hit the mark dead center with me this time, but if he does another album I have every faith in him.
Paying money for something you love is buying.
Paying over the odds for something you don't love is SUPPORTING.

Originally Posted by batoutofhell

Okay, speaking as a new poster, I probably shouldn't be getting in on this one. That said, nothing like diving in at the deep end of the pool! So... while it does dip, in my opinion, a little toward negative wording, the Mouse guy's got a valid point. What about the Meat fans who don't download singles and don't know how to? How can they help?

Frame it that way and you can more easily address the question, don't you agree?

Welcome to the forum, it's never too soon to jump into the debates





On a final note, thanks to R for splitting this thread.
I would have done that myself if i'd logged in earlier and seen what happened to this thread.

It was not my intention that the thread be trashed.
It is a thread of support and work, and even though I might not agree 100% in the resault of this, I can't disagree with the heartfelt effort people put into supporting Meat.
It is, however, a shame that all this can be put off kilter because of one less than gl;owiong post.
All I had stated was my own honest and respectfully posted opinions, and IMHO it is the rush to defend (defend?) against that opinion that resulted in the thread getting so messed up.


I've said it all along.
Let people have their say and their voice is heard once and is finished.
Confront that voice and quote it over and over again and the thread takes a whole different direction.

[The Flying Mouse]

~~~~~~ me, that's the longest post i've ever seen

[daveake]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Have I said the song is shit?
Have I said that this will not work?
Have I told everyone involved to go get a life?

Hmmm .... tempting ....

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by daveake

Hmmm .... tempting ....

Not at all Dave.
I respect that people are putting their hearts and their time into this.

Those were examples of insulting and disrespectful remarks.

I never said anything like that.
I don't believe anything like that.

So why were the comments so villified?

[Rage Against]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

No offense here, but saying all this is a fantastic success, what is the record company going to learn?

That they can half ass the job and still come out with an unexpected hit?

All this so they can sit around patting themselves on the back for a job well done?
Because you can guarentee that the fans who do this won't get any credit for it.

I do not download singles.
I don't know how to. (may sound strange, but i've never had any interest in downloading singles).
I know how to go to HMV and buy singles.
If they want my money they are going to have to put something in the shop that I can buy.
They are not going to put something in the shop if I download a Meat Loaf song I already have to prove a point that I don't believe in.







Is this going to be an original hand signed autograph or will this be a printed one?
Because if you offer one thing and give another, you are going to have a lot of pissed off Meat Loaf fans knocking at your door.

Also note that if all this promotion is done for Meat, then it will be viewed by the layman to be in conjunction with Meat, and if people expect a Meat autograph, then it is Meat who it will reflect on if that is not what is delivered.

I quoted your post above and fail to see any support of the effort. If the support is their, requote the exact words and I'll discontinue with my opinion. Your post gives the impression of not supporting the effort. But why not support the effort if you're a fan of Meat? How about a "Hey good job on the website and materials, but here's a couple of observations..." I'm simply saying, if you were one of the people involved with this effort, wouldn't you like to hear some support. Why does it take me typing a reply and getting hammered in return, to get people to praise this group's efforts.

And your post starts of with "No offense". Humans tend to say that when they know they're about to cause offense.

[daveake]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Not at all Dave.
I respect that people are putting their hearts and their time into this.

I meant it was tempting for me to say it ; just injecting a little humour.

I think it's great that people are making these efforts though, for what it's worth, I don't happen to think they'll make sqrt(f-all) difference.

[A Slice Of English]

Originally Posted by daveake

Of course; I just injecting a little humour

I think it's great that people are making these efforts though, for what it's worth, I don't happen to think they'll make sqrt(f-all) difference.

Ditto, regrettably.

[daveake]

Originally Posted by Rage Against

But why not support the effort if you're a fan of Meat?

Well, I won't be supporting it because I don't like the track. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable reason to me. I fail to see that there is a duty as a fan to support Meat unconditionally.

I support Meat by going to his concerts and buying his CDs and DVDs that I do like, but I do this because I like these things not for any other reason.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Rage Against

I quoted your post above and fail to see any support of the effort. If the support is their, requote the exact words and I'll discontinue with my opinion. Your post gives the impression of not supporting the effort.

So I got my point across then?
Because I don't particularly support this idea.

That is not to say that i've put the people involved down, or rubbished their efforts.

I do support Meat, and that is why I voiced the concern that if autographs were promised then they would be delivered.

Let me tell you a story here, you might see where i'm coming from.

When I was new to the net, I visited a fan site to a musical artist and entered a draw that this artist would themselves draw.
When I was notified that this person had picked my out of the hat I was over the moon.
I sent an e mail full of thanks and asking to pass on a message to this artist.
I also asked for an autograph.
I was told that would be no problem.

I waited impatiently for this parcel to arrive and when it did I was more than a little disapointed.
The prize was second hand, a bit on the scuffed side, and had the booklet missing.
The signed photo was straight off the printer and wasn't even a very good fake (printer lines all the way down, including through the printed sig).

AS that artist was supposed to do the draw themselves (and being new to the net, I had no reason to doubt this ) I felt that this artist was involved and felt cheated and swindled.
This artists reputation suffered for quite a while with me.
Of course, this artist was nothing to do with that site, it was just a fan site, but I would hate seeing that happen en masse to a load of Meat Loaf fans who might well feel cheated and moreover, cheated by MEAT.

So, if you look hard enough, there is support for Meat right there by asking for confirmation that these autogtraphs are legit.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

But why not support the effort if you're a fan of Meat?

Because I would like to see this work done by the lazy assholes who are paid to put this kind of effort into promoting Meat.

Because i'd like to see Meat's singles on store shelves again rather than the said lazy assholes thinking "we got Meat to number one last time by not releasing anything, it worked last time, let's do it again, hooray".

OK, i've joined the facebook group out of respect for the people who have gone to the trouble of putting this together, but I had a concern that I voiced.
Forums are good for that.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

How about a "Hey good job on the website and materials, but here's a couple of observations..."

Look, I thought long and hard about the post.
I typed it, I read it through, I read it through again making sure that it was worded in a non offensive and respectful manner.
You want nuts and a flake too?

If it'll make everyone happy.........

Good job on the website and the materials

Originally Posted by Rage Against

wouldn't you like to hear some support.

I see they have lots of support.
I dare say the people doing this are not so insecure they need their collective bum licked every time somebody actually has something to say?

Originally Posted by Rage Against

Why does it take me typing a reply and getting hammered in return, to get people to praise this group's efforts.

They have lots of praise.

The reason you got a hammering from me is because you insinuated that I don't support Meat.
IMHO that must be one of the worst insults you can give on this forum.
To go to a musicians forum, that you use free of charge, and insult the staff (who give their time free of charge for the love of it) like that is completly out of order.
I'd consider a banning for acting like that.
It's disgraceful.

Originally Posted by Rage Against

And your post starts of with "No offense". Humans tend to say that when they know they're about to cause offense.

We also tend to say it when we are aware that what we say may cause offence, but it is not our objective to do so.

[Rage Against]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

So I got my point across then?
Because I don't particularly support this idea.

That is not to say that i've put the people involved down, or rubbished their efforts.

I do support Meat, and that is why I voiced the concern that if autographs were promised then they would be delivered.

Let me tell you a story here, you might see where i'm coming from.

When I was new to the net, I visited a fan site to a musical artist and entered a draw that this artist would themselves draw.
When I was notified that this person had picked my out of the hat I was over the moon.
I sent an e mail full of thanks and asking to pass on a message to this artist.
I also asked for an autograph.
I was told that would be no problem.

I waited impatiently for this parcel to arrive and when it did I was more than a little disapointed.
The prize was second hand, a bit on the scuffed side, and had the booklet missing.
The signed photo was straight off the printer and wasn't even a very good fake (printer lines all the way down, including through the printed sig).

AS that artist was supposed to do the draw themselves (and being new to the net, I had no reason to doubt this ) I felt that this artist was involved and felt cheated and swindled.
This artists reputation suffered for quite a while with me.
Of course, this artist was nothing to do with that site, it was just a fan site, but I would hate seeing that happen en masse to a load of Meat Loaf fans who might well feel cheated and moreover, cheated by MEAT.

So, if you look hard enough, there is support for Meat right there by asking for confirmation that these autogtraphs are legit.




Because I would like to see this work done by the lazy assholes who are paid to put this kind of effort into promoting Meat.

Because i'd like to see Meat's singles on store shelves again rather than the said lazy assholes thinking "we got Meat to number one last time by not releasing anything, it worked last time, let's do it again, hooray".

OK, i've joined the facebook group out of respect for the people who have gone to the trouble of putting this together, but I had a concern that I voiced.
Forums are good for that.





Look, I thought long and hard about the post.
I typed it, I read it through, I read it through again making sure that it was worded in a non offensive and respectful manner.
You want nuts and a flake too?

If it'll make everyone happy.........

Good job on the website and the materials




I see they have lots of support.
I dare say the people doing this are not so insecure they need their collective bum licked every time somebody actually has something to say?





They have lots of praise.

The reason you got a hammering from me is because you insinuated that I don't support Meat.
IMHO that must be one of the worst insults you can give on this forum.
To go to a musicians forum, that you use free of charge, and insult the staff (who give their time free of charge for the love of it) like that is completly out of order.
I'd consider a banning for acting like that.




We also tend to say it when we are aware that what we say may cause offence, but it is not our objective to do so.

Yet again you've proved my point. Ban away, if you can get banned for supporting the effort of the musician who the website is supposed to support. And for asking for the decency of support...from fans.

[CarylB]

I do support Meat, and that is why I voiced the concern that if autographs were promised then they would be delivered.

If I can just answer this point. We said signed. The website would make it plain that Meat had written a message and signed the original picture, and they could download a personal copy. There was never the intention to post out originals, not would that be promised. As it is we do not have this yet. What we offer is a picture of Meat as a thank you. He is aware of what we are doing, and we have had no complaints from those who have signed up and downloaded it. We will also be offering another picture to those who sign up to support the campaign. This is not on site yet.

Caryl

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Rage Against

Yet again you've proved my point. Ban away, if you can get banned for supporting the effort of the musician who the website is supposed to support. And for asking for the decency of support...from fans.

No you can't get banned for supporting the artist the forum is dedicated to, but i'll be happy to send you off on holiday for having the bare faced cheeck to say the members of staff of this forum are not Meat Loaf fans.

[Rage Against]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

No you can't get banned for supporting the artist the forum is dedicated to, but i'll be happy to send you off on holiday for having the bare faced cheeck to say the members of staff of this forum are not Meat Loaf fans.

Went through my posts and don't see anywhere I said, "the members of staff of this forum are not Meat Loaf fans." I did say, "If you don't support, why are you here?"

[LucyK!]

Just reading this thread, I sincerely hope that this campaign isn't going to spilt the forum into two groups - those that do sign up and therefore are supportive of Meat, and those that don't and therefore aren't.

Whilst it's great to see fans coming together with a passion for a cause to support Meat, I think we have to remember that (as with anything) it might not be everyone's cup of tea. I know that the people involved in the campaign are not forcing people to join or putting pressure on people to support it, but the campaign is just hours old and already there's whiffs of people being accused of not being 'proper fans' for not being as openly supportive as others have been.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as Meat fans we all support him in our own ways, and just because people will choose whether or not to join the campaign doesn't make them any more or less of a fan, and I hope that something that should bring fans together won't result in dividing them.

[daveake]

Indeed. Every time I see the phrase "proper fan" or "real fan" I wonder WTF one of those is.

[Rage Against]

I give up...

[duke knooby]

Originally Posted by daveake

Indeed. Every time I see the phrase "proper fan" or "real fan" I wonder WTF one of those is.

what about air multiplier??

[A Slice Of English]

I have also declined to sign up to this campaign. This is not because I am not a Meat Loaf fan and not because I do not like the song. I do like the song, but I own it already on CD, deluxe version CD and LP, so no way in hell will I be downloading an inferior copy of the song on a specified date.

[A Slice Of English]

And before someone says I'm not supporting him, so why am I here: I have three copies of the album in various formats. That's plenty enough support from one fan thanks very much.

[TheDoode]

Some interesting points... some not >.<
I have resigned my original 'yes' from the 'creative team', so there may be a place for the taking? Which I guess is Caryl's call.
Personally I would love to see this come off, it's entirely possible, but I feel that the approach is WAY off from the general facebook/myspace/twitter demographic, unfortunately.

Doode.

[A Slice Of English]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

I feel that the approach is WAY off from the general facebook/myspace/twitter demographic, unfortunately.

I agree with you mate.

[TheDoode]

It's sad, because fan campaigns have held water in the past, but they've always been done with an edge and general feeling of collective coolness. I've joined the facebook page, I've asked friends to join and consider downloading on the day, but honestly, take a look at the material and the incredibly tight deadline... I don't see non-Loaf fans being hooked by this. Which is a shame, because I know that people have been working hard on it. I just don't feel that those efforts have been focused in the right areas.

For the record, I HOPE it works!

Doode.

[Jayd]

Personally, I just applaud the effort of those doing this, and for 89p, I will purchase the track. I myself have 7 copies of HCTB, but 89p for a bit of support what members are doing here, is not going to bankrupt me.

Well done guys, hope you can pull it off.

[Rage Against]

Originally Posted by Jayd

Personally, I just applaud the effort of those doing this, and for 89p, I will purchase the track. I myself have 7 copies of HCTB, but 89p for a bit of support what members are doing here, is not going to bankrupt me.

Well done guys, hope you can pull it off.

Well said.