Verbal abuse

[Deb]

tbuck that was sort of what I was trying to say

Deb

[Winston]

spot on terry

[CarylB]

Yes, I too have felt patronised at times by some postings. I won't give examples as I appreciate that this might not have been the writer's intention, just as if my use of English should give that impression it is not intended. But whilst I may find it irritating, I personally don't feel abused or bullied by it, and if I respond I do so without abusive language. I agree we're all entitled to our opinions .. the only thing I question is the way they are sometimes expressed. I watched Meat become increasingly defensive about the way criticisms of him were expressed and, along with many others, voiced my concerns. I saw him leave this forum and was like the vast majority greatly saddened. I was like the vast majority thrilled to have him return.

He said then:
" .... but putdowns, Lies and just plan being angry over what I don't know I will not tolerate. come on!! I don't need you money I need your Loyality" I will, like others here, continue to question when this line is crossed.

For me it's about the music, the acting, the humour, the personality but above all the huge heart of the man this site is dedicted to. And now he's back and he's fit and well, perhaps it's time to draw a line under this, celebrate his return to health, and trust that his wishes are respected.

His entrance last night was superb and shows his amazing humour .. he has tweaked the nose of fate and shown once again what a consummate performer and professional he is. No wonder we love him :)

[Sue K]

tbuck factually stated:

Now after 4 pages

and... into it's fourth day...

imo...it's time to be over now...we're just on a dizzying merry-go-round now...imo.. now that Meat is back and better than ever... it's time to move on to what all are saying the forum is about..the music ..etc...

this dead horse is starting to have a stench...

we can always come back here should we spot the abuses again...

but for now...please...from my heart....please...

for now...

let's get to the joy of the man...being back...

let's...as he should...have some fun with the rest of the tour...

please....

tink...

[ROSIE]

i agree with tink it is time to draw a line under all of this and move on!!!!



Rosie

[Winston]

_____________________________________________________________

[little_dancer]

Just Quickly:

Interesting discussion to which I'd like to add the following...

There are people on here who have negative points of view (on an album, or a song, or a film) who get attacked for being negative- albeit usually because they've worded it a bit offensively i.e. Titanic Sucked as opposed to: I didn't like Titanic because Leonardo Dicaprio looked too young for that part (my opinion)
They often get their opinions dismissed for being mean.

There are equally, however, people who get criticised for being positive (on an album, or a song, or a film) They often get their opinions 'dismissed' as being overdone, or rediculous or obsessive (I've had that one pointed at me )

It is important, not only to discuss, but to allow opposing points of view without 'dismissing' them because their author is...whomever.

I don't know if that makes sense-but let's just say that different people on here become known for being 'negative' or 'positive' (we've all seen that, right?) and then we dismiss everything they say for that reason. That has GOT to stop- look at each post as it's own thing and disagree of agree with THE POST...I may disagree with Caryl one day (as an example) and totally agree with her the next- so let's not let past squabbles creep into current discourse...it happens quite a bit on here-


Having said that- you guys are the cutest

[blaze]

Manipulating people and patronising people, is just as much a form of bullying as being abusive is.
My wife deleted my previous post, she was concerned about any
backlash, as she is one of the people who you have "put" in the
picture as you see it.
Is this the way a forum should be? people thinking how they are going
to be picked on for having an opinion?
this is a great forum, do not let it be taken over by a few people who
refuse to let others have ideas of a nature different to them.
tell me did you create ROL as a place you call heaven?

[Sue K]

... you know... i was so sincere with what i said this morning...but now...

time for some fun...

PM me with your vote on who answers next and i'll tally and let you know who won via return PM... it's pretty predictable at this point with few choices ...

tink of ROL..and dang proud of it...

[SueW]

Originally Posted by ROSIE

i agree with tink it is time to draw a line under all of this and move on!!!! Rosie

Why?

This is site feedback....the place where people should be able to post freely (but with respect for others) how they feel about this site.

As a moderator I've found this thread interesting. I've also found it sad to read that people won't post because they are worried about the possible backlash (whichever form it comes in). If people don't tell us what is worrying them then we can't do much about it (apart from obvious abuse).

If it's just that you are bored by the thread, then don't read it! There are threads on this board that I don't read because I'm not interested in them. For example that "One For The Girls!!!" thread bores me silly so I don't read it...I didn't say after 4 days that that was enough and let's move on. I just read other threads on the board.

I was actually pleased to read all these comments in this thread that didn't resort to name-calling or other abuse that happens on this board.

Originally Posted by blaze

this is a great forum, do not let it be taken over by a few people who
refuse to let others have ideas of a nature different to them.

To quote that worn out phrase on this board I Couldn't Have Said It Better Myself.

Eventually this thread will die a nature death (as all threads do) but until the time I think that all members should be able to post about any abuse they have suffered from posts or were worried that they may have suffered if they had expressed their feelings.

Or if members are still too worried to post about it, PM one of the moderators.

SueW

[libertine]

Does it count as abuse if you get kicked out of a different web forum/group/community (one founded and run by regular posters here) just days after expressing an unpopular opinion in a thread? Just curious...

Most of you will not know me too well, I don't post regularly but I do read most of the General Messages, ICHSIB, Tour Talk and Site Feedback threads. And Fight Club once in a while, although that's been fairly quiet lately. I do what Sue describes - I glance at most of the titles and read the ones i want to. There are quite a few of topics I have personally thought boring and equivalent to the well-beaten horse left out in the sun, but if they're of interest to you, more power to ya. Post away and I'll ignore them as I have been. :)

I have to say I'm pleased that I haven't noticed too many people attacking or flaming at anyone in this thread, mainly expressing their opinion. There's always one in every crowd, whether it's He Who Shall Remain Nameless or the guy in the back of the class picture sticking his tongue out and flipping the bird. C'est la vie.

I was picked on in school too. Do I wish it hadn't happened? Maybe, but I wouldn't be the person I am today without that. Maybe I'd have been a better person, but I don't think so.

I also fell in with a destructive bunch of people during my eighth grade year and picked on other people when I had the chance. Do I wish I hadn't? Absolutely. Knowing what I know now, I wish I could find every person I made fun of and apologize to them. Not gonna happen. And that's a shame.

I've also been picked on in cyberspace. On a different message board, I was cyber-stalked for a while last year by someone "pretending" to be me, right down to coopting both my screen name and my "real" name. This person was very disruptive and mean-spirited and I do not know for sure why it happened to this day. I had to make a decision as to what to do about it. I didn't want to leave or stop participating, so my mother kept saying "Why do you care so much about this jerk?" I had a friend asking why I was letting someone live rent-free in my head. Never did come up with a good answer for either of those questions.

For me, this other board was a haven, a refuge, a place where I felt like I belonged at the end of a day working with people I don't particularly like. Instead of reacting with anger and retorts and namecalling, I resorted to humor. I gave this person two posts in response and then said "I'm done, we're not doing this anymore." And I stuck to it. You know what? The other person eventually got bored (?) & went away.

I am trying to remember to get over myself on a daily basis, and remember that this is just a web forum, my job is just a way to pay the mortgage, etc. None of it is life & death, fortunately for me. If I don't like what's happening on a message board, I can go away for a few days or just plain stop reading someone's posts. If I don't like the job, well, at least I have one and I can come home to my quiet and my solitude and read a good book.

Anyhow. I'm rambling (which surprises some of you not a bit) and am also very tired, so I am going to say good night now. Sorry this is so long... at this rate I will catch up with some of you in post lengths if not post numbers!! Have a good one, wherever you are.

[Deb]

I agree 100% with you Sue!

The only reason I decided to stop hodling back on the send button was so that others knew there was actually people out there who had a different opinion to the ones forced down our throats on a daily basis. Don't get me wrong I also chose to ignore stuff I dont want to read, but thats not quite the same as being able to ignore people patronising others etc... Like a few have said bullying exists on many different levels, its just some are on a much more obvious level. Doesnt make these people the only ones in the wrong.

Wonder if tink had many votes for you being next to post Sue I actually wrote 2 posts in reply to that post and deleted them, wonder how many others did that as well for fear of rocking the boat. Is that what a lot of you want? a forum full of people who have to think twice before posting? I'm sure the list of who was to post next wouldnt be so obvious if everyone felt they could express an opinion. As it is, maybe its obvious because theres only a few who feel able to say how they feel. Seems theres a lot who will agree with one half of the forum, while the others who agree with the rest are afraid to post for what ever reason. Also I now know this isnt just how I feel after having many people tell me this is also how they feel, but are afraid to say it.

Deb

[Sue K]

Deb wrote:

Wonder if tink had many votes for you being next to post Sue I actually wrote 2 posts in reply to that post and deleted them, wonder how many others did that as well for fear of rocking the boat.

sadly nobody wanted to play ...

and even I was rrrong ... imagine that ...

sorry my play ...

chased you away...

BURma shave...

tink ... off to attempt to get thru the day unscathed ...

[Winston]

Originally Posted by SueW

There are threads on this board that I don't read because I'm not interested in them. For example that "One For The Girls!!!" thread bores me silly so I don't read it....SueW

Only if there were pictures of Kasim in it

[Dave]

Originally Posted by sultonfan

Wonder if tink had many votes for you being next to post Sue I actually wrote 2 posts in reply to that post and deleted them, wonder how many others did that as well for fear of rocking the boat.

Well, in my chatting on the messengers last night (BTW, I LOVE chatting...feel free to send me a message, the link is on every post I make here) I can count of three people who said they wanted to say something, but were afraid of being chided and ridiculed for what they said. I cannot count the times I have had a nearly full inbox of profanity laced PM's (on this board) for actions I have taken as a mod on the General forum. It is just funny when someone really does not contribute anything of much substance to a board, but can lay into a mod in a PM with all kinds of new ideas.

ROCK ON SILENT MAJORITY!!!

[Dave]

____________________________________________________

ROCK ON NO HATE!!!

[Winston]

what's there too be afraid of?? come on people now's the time, get your act together and say what you want to say.

[bambi]

power to the ppl!!

[original sin]

This is turning into a thought provoking topic! Although yet again I do see an emphasis shift away from the original meaning of the thread.
My thoughts at this moment in time are that this topic was created due to the persistent use of derogatory name calling.
Although I’m still not quite sure, I do hope we are all in agreement that this is not acceptable.
I see no need what so ever to resort to base abuse and name calling to make a point.

Thereafter we have some more food for thought, concern has been expressed that posts appear patronising or condescending. Well I do have to agree on this one, I have read posts by certain people that I find incredibly pompous, self ingratiating, patronising and condescending, although I doubt I see them in the same posts to which the inference is made.

How we interpret what we read, is influenced by many factors, including our own personal feelings about the author , which in turn unfortunately can be influenced by others.

Writing style is a personal trait, just as the colour of your hair or eyes.

Can we say they same for a style that includes direct and offensive putdowns? Imho NO

After all is said and done this is a FAN CLUB site and I don’t think anyone should be surprised if they are challenged if they make direct attacks on members “fanship” or start questionable topics e.g Meat Loaf is not a God?

All are saying they know that some people will not post because of………and each has there own reason. What I can say is I know that some people do not post on “serious” topics because they have seen others be called “sad”, “Obsessive”, or “sycophants” and do not what to be in the same position.

The old, saying sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me” may to a degree be true in an “adult world”, but it does make for an uncomfortable relationship.

It is both unreasonable and unrealistic to expect that there will never be a difference of opinion, the only thing being asked, is for any discussion or debate to be conducted in a civil manner .

[Deb]

How we interpret what we read, is influenced by many factors, including our own personal feelings about the author , which in turn unfortunately can be influenced by others.

Not on my part it doesn't. I only joined the forum in april I think and have only recently started reading regularly so I have no preconcieved ideas of anyone, everything I think is from what i've read recently. it's this alone thats led me to speak up.

After all is said and done this is a FAN CLUB site and I don’t think anyone should be surprised if they are challenged if they make direct attacks on members “fanship” or start questionable topics e.g Meat Loaf is not a God?

There are very many different levels of fans and just as I don't agree with anyone being put down for being a "superduper" fan. I also don't agree with "the lesser obsessed fans" being belittled for their views. This isn't only done in the "Meats not god" topics.

It is both unreasonable and unrealistic to expect that there will never be a difference of opinion, the only thing being asked, is for any discussion or debate to be conducted in a civil manner

Very true, but just because someones not hurling verbal abuse does not mean they aren't having a holier than thou attitude :)

Deb ( who is very harrased and stressed with 5 kids so please people don't pick my words apart, if I havent the time some have to sit here and get it word perfect )[/b]

[ChrissybabezNI]

I have to agree with you, about debates being discussed properly and as this thread has gone on I have been able to see other points of view more clearly. Whoever mentioned the fact that people on here come from a number of different countries and that can sometimes make for misunderstanding was exactly right. People can sometimes put an opinion a certain way and for want of a better explaination, put it in a way that may sound ok to them but not to someone else who reads it. I guess misunderstandings and differences of opinion will cause upset from time to time, and it's best to get it out inthe open sooner rather than later so things can get smoothed out. I know as I have done this myself as some people did not agree with what I wrote on my last post, and after reading any comeback on it I have to say my views have changed also, But as I wrote at the very end of it, I didn't want anyone to think I was being rude or disrespectful as I meant to malice in that post at all. Although I do think its very sad that people don't want to join in topics but I feel that after a lot of things that have been said in this topic, and feelings are out in the open, that everyone, myself included will allow for differences in opinion in the future which I'm sure can only be a good thing, now we know how other people are feeling and how much our words can matter.

Chrissy

[original sin]

Originally Posted by sultonfan

Very true, but just because someones not hurling verbal abuse does not mean they aren't having a holier than thou attitude :)

and then, imo, we are back to personal opinion and interpretation, like I said in my earlier post, each of us will see this in different places, and not necessarily the same place

Deb ( who is very harrased and stressed with 5 kids so please people don't pick my words apart, if I havent the time some have to sit here and get it word perfect )

Sin (who apart from the 5 kids) can so relate to this

[Dave]

Originally Posted by sultonfan

Very true, but just because someones not hurling verbal abuse does not mean they aren't having a holier than thou attitude :)

Couldn't Have Said It Better Deb :)

[Di]

Hi,

I have been mostly lurking here since the beginning of this last year, I am not often tempted to post... but I do enjoy the community. But I wanted to say that this is an EXCELLENT topic, a very valuable thread and discussion, and there are some very articulate, intelligent, and thought provoking posts here. This is what being a community at it's very best can be.... To accept that life has conflict in it, but to learn from it and work through it.... and not run and hide.

Well done you guys.
:)
Di

[CarylB]

Sin wrote:

and then, imo, we are back to personal opinion and interpretation, like I said in my earlier post, each of us will see this in different places, and not necessarily the same place

And that's so true. Who's to say if someone says for eg that they "refuse to dumb down their post for anyone" they are being patronising, "holier than thou" or merely expressing something they feel strongly? I may blink .. but I don't take that as abuse or intentional bullying.

But if someone says "you're talking bollocks!" or "talking crap", or calls me, or anyone, names for expressing their opinion, I think they cross a line .. a line of courtesy certainly, and in the case of name calling the line that separates debate and verbal abuse. When it's consistently applied to one or two persons, even when they express a similar opinion to others, that's imo bullying