A Big Meat Loaf RANT!!! (RNR Hall of Fame)

[R.]

Having visited the RnR Hall Of Fame recently, I can say I expected a lot more to see there. Yes, it's all fine and dandy with interesting items, but at the end of the day I think it's overrated. Did you know that you're not allowed to take photos in there?

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Hoping for a big surprise at this Christmas . I'm working on it very hard.

If this is what I think it is, then whoah!

[jcmoorehead]

Originally Posted by R.

Having visited the RnR Hall Of Fame recently, I can say I expected a lot more to see there. Yes, it's all fine and dandy with interesting items, but at the end of the day I think it's overrated. Did you know that you're not allowed to take photos in there?

If this is what I think it is, then whoah!

Not allowed to take photos? Sounds a bit stupid what problems are caused by photos of inanimate objects?

Speaking of something, Meat mentioned he's been asked to donate items which lead me to remember a few years ago. I was in New York and I got a tour of Radio City Music Hall and inside they had a signed BOOH Guitar, can I just ask the story behind it?

[JaysScout]

Originally Posted by R.

Having visited the RnR Hall Of Fame recently, I can say I expected a lot more to see there. Yes, it's all fine and dandy with interesting items, but at the end of the day I think it's overrated. Did you know that you're not allowed to take photos in there?

If this is what I think it is, then whoah!

I've been to the Professional Baseball Hall Of Fame in Cooperstown, NY 3 times. It's probably the most prestigious HOF in the US, if not the world. You can take ALL the pictures you want!!! WTF is up with the R&R HOF? Are they afraid you may take a pic of a Jimi Hendrix guitar and sell it?????

I'm starting to think Meat Loaf DOES NOT belong in the R&R HOF. It's beneath him!!! I guess his career has survived pretty well without being inducted. LOL

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead

Not allowed to take photos? Sounds a bit stupid what problems are caused by photos of inanimate objects?

You might not buy the postcard in the gift shop

What a bunch of assholes.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by AndyK

They weren't the best musicians, but they weren't completely talentless either.

I agree. And for the record Friggin In The Riggin is one of the funniest songs ever!

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndyK

It's also about the inspiration that bands liek the Sex Pistols created in others...

Exactly; if you read the criteria for the awards (there are other categories besides performers), many of them are there because of their influence/ inspiration on others. Don't forget that Rock 'n Roll as we know it is relatively young; it developed out of several genres including R & B (might explain Earth, Wind & Fire, for instance), blues and country. Some might not be obvious, eg, Jackson Browne- I don't know about that one either.

Originally Posted by AndyK

End of the day, there is No honour that will be universally accepted as being bestowed correctly. Because everyones taaste is different. Every year at The Oscars there's the argument about whether the best film won the best film award.

Exactly; just because we feel a specific person should be in the Hall (or not) doesn't mean that everyone shares that view. Another thing to consider is the first criteria for inclusion, which is that the artist's first record must have been released at least 25 years ago. Some people may not be in yet because they aren't eligible yet or recently became eligible.

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead

Not allowed to take photos? Sounds a bit stupid what problems are caused by photos of inanimate objects?

I've been to lots of museums, and many of them don't allow photos. There are various reasons for this, I'm sure, one probably being that you wouldn't buy the postcards , but the flash from cameras can also fade fabrics over time (just as sunlight would). As with other museums, many items in the Rock Hall don't belong to the Hall itself- they are on loan from the artists or private collectors.

I'm a fan of Frank Lloyd Wright, and I've only been to one of his buildings that allowed photos to be taken of the interior.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Exactly; just because we feel a specific person should be in the Hall (or not) doesn't mean that everyone shares that view. Another thing to consider is the first criteria for inclusion, which is that the artist's first record must have been released at least 25 years ago. Some people may not be in yet because they aren't eligible yet or recently became eligible.

Indeed. I'd just say this. Meat has been eligible as a performer, and Steinman as a writer, for several years now, and each year another list of eligibles is added. When you look at some of those inducted into a Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame (Mamas and Papas springs to mind) whilst they may have made a significant contribution to popular music, their contribution to Rock'n'Roll is questionable. The inclusion of artists from genres other than rock, and the failure to induct or even nominate rock artists who would seem to be obvious choices are turning it into a Pop Hall of Fame.

And the nominating committee has been severely criticised over the years as operating like a old boys business club with a vested interest in promoting some artists over others.

The fact that Meat considers it not to count for much in terms of eminence (and given the way it operates, and what it's becoming, I'm not disagreeing) doesn't alter the fact imo that his omission is bizarre, with a landmark album that still outsells most others, and continuous touring to sold out arenas for over 30 years, even if for some of those years his universal following in the USA had fallen away. I don't consider it likely he will be nominated now, and he has indicated he has no time for it and would refuse, which is understandable. But to me it is poorer for not including him.

Caryl

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by CarylB

When you look at some of those inducted into a Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame (Mamas and Papas springs to mind) whilst they may have made a significant contribution to popular music, their contribution to Rock'n'Roll is questionable. The inclusion of artists from genres other than rock, and the failure to induct or even nominate rock artists who would seem to be obvious choices are turning it into a Pop Hall of Fame.

You raise some valid points, Caryl, and I'm not quite a rock historian, so I'm not going to try to justify the inclusion of any one particular artist or group, but, again, in general, artists from other genres are considered for their influences on those who came after them. According to the Rock Hall,

"...one of the Foundation’s many functions is to recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll by inducting them into the Hall of Fame. "

How would you define Rock and Roll? When, and with whom, specifically, did it start? People might say, "Elvis Presley". OK, who were Elvis' influences? Blues and country artists, most likely. Would it then be unfair to say those individuals did not in some way contribute to the evolution of Rock and Roll? I'd say they contributed to it's very birth.

Chuck Berry? You can hear the country influences in his songs. Rolling Stones? Blues influences. Led Zeppelin? The same. Bruce Springsteen lists Roy Orbison as an influence- would you call Roy Orbison Rock and Roll? I wouldn't, yet you can't deny his contribution.

Think about those we would probably consider our "Rock & Roll heroes" and their age group (Meat's age group); they most likely grew up listening to the pop music of the '60's. The lines between genres are somewhat blurry now, IMO, I'd say they were even blurrier back then. Where do you draw the line?

Originally Posted by CarylB

And the nominating committee has been severely criticised over the years as operating like a old boys business club with a vested interest in promoting some artists over others.

Not denying this, I've heard it before. But you've just said it- it's like a business club. And business, like it or not, involves politics.

Originally Posted by CarylB

The fact that Meat considers it not to count for much in terms of eminence (and given the way it operates, and what it's becoming, I'm not disagreeing)... I don't consider it likely he will be nominated now, and he has indicated he has no time for it and would refuse, which is understandable.

Again, not being a smartass, but Meat has said they've asked him to participate and he refused, that they don't like him, and he doesn't like them; maybe this contributes to the fact he hasn't been nominated? Why include someone who doesn't want to be included?

[Sue K]

Phew, okay. I've just found this thread and skimmed through it. Am I correct to assume we can stop pushing for Meat to get into the RockNRoll Hall Of Fame ? Imo, it's an honor, but if Meat thinks it's bull, why bother ? I'm right as rain with no Meat for RNRHOF if he doesn't want it.

And a Christmas surprise. A dvd from the fab HCTB tour shows would be very cool ! ... Ho Ho Ho ! ... I might even decorate this year in order to find that under the tree ... ... I love you, Chiefie ... xo

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by tink

Phew, okay. I've just found this thread and skimmed through it. Am I correct to assume we can stop pushing for Meat to get into the RockNRoll Hall Of Fame ? Imo, it's an honor, but if Meat thinks it's bull, why bother ? I'm right as rain with no Meat for RNRHOF if he doesn't want it.

And a Christmas surprise. A dvd from the fab HCTB tour shows would be very cool ! ... Ho Ho Ho ! ... I might even decorate this year in order to find that under the tree ... ... I love you, Chiefie ... xo

I don't think we should push him anymore after what he told us, they will either induct him in the future or not. They are well aware of him and his
contributions to rock n roll. "The ball is in their court now", as an ex-teacher of mine used to say.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by tink

Am I correct to assume we can stop pushing for Meat to get into the RockNRoll Hall Of Fame ?

I wasn't aware anyone was pushing him into it in the first place

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Pudding

I wasn't aware anyone was pushing him into it in the first place

Excuse me. Perhaps "pushing" was wrong word to use. I'll phrase it this way then: I'll assume I can stop signing petitions since Meat seems reluctant to be in RNRHOF.

[Vickip]

Yes, exactly tink
And I LOVE your idea about the HCTB DVD .. that would be an amazing Christmas present

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by Vickip

Yes, exactly tink
And I LOVE your idea about the HCTB DVD .. that would be an amazing Christmas present

I'd love the HCTB DVD too and news that he'll be working with Jim on Bat Out Of Hell IV. Santa wouldn't be able to bring me a better present than that. Oh and free tickets to all the Irish fans on MLUKFC for the show in the 02...now that's pushing it. LOL.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Steve6

I'd love the HCTB DVD too and news that he'll be working with Jim on Bat Out Of Hell IV.

I'd like to know why Meat should be "Batman forever".

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I'd like to know why Meat should be "Batman forever".

He had his most success as Batman, you might as well keep playing with a winning formula.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I'd like to know why Meat should be "Batman forever".

Originally Posted by Steve6

He had his most success as Batman, you might as well keep playing with a winning formula.

I see where this on is going, so here's a dog chasing it's tail...........

YouTube Video

Wether Meat should go back to the Bat formula or not is an old convo, and one that is never resolved

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Steve6

Santa wouldn't be able to bring me a better present than that.

An ECT machine perhaps?

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I see where this on is going, so here's a dog chasing it's tail...........




Wether Meat should go back to the Bat formula or not is an old convo, and one that is never resolved

Yes, right ? Similar to an actor starting out, playing that first role and being type-cast in that same sort of role forever. Fine if they're happy doing that, but not so fine if they're not. Imo, Meat's HCTB is a breakaway from the Bat format, so imo, he may not be content to remain "Batman 4-Ever" ...

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by tink

Imo, Meat's HCTB is a breakaway from the Bat format,

Apart from the Steinman songs, in what possible way is it a 'breakaway'? Meat's singing rock songs like he's done on all his other albums. To me it's not a breakaway at all. If he did a country album, or a swing album, or Hip-Hip album(god forbid), then that would be a breakaway.

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Apart from the Steinman songs, in what possible way is it a 'breakaway'? Meat's singing rock songs like he's done on all his other albums. To me it's not a breakaway at all. If he did a country album, or a swing album, or Hip-Hip album(god forbid), then that would be a breakaway.

When I think "Bat", I think "Meat Loaf and Steinman". There's no Steinman on HCTB, so to me and imo, it's a breakaway from the "Bat" format, the "Bat" franchise.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by tink

When I think "Bat", I think "Meat Loaf and Steinman". There's no Steinman on HCTB, so to me and imo, it's a breakaway from the "Bat" format, the "Bat" franchise.

In that respect then, shouldn't Midnight At The Lost And Found be Meats 'breakaway' album?, then Blind Before I Stop, then Couldn't Have Said It Better. Unless you're counting HCTB as Meats fourth breakaway album

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Pudding

In that respect then, shouldn't Midnight At The Lost And Found be Meats 'breakaway' album?, then Blind Before I Stop, then Couldn't Have Said It Better. Unless you're counting HCTB as Meats fourth breakaway album

Your stating it that way, I guess I'm saying "Meat's fourth breakaway album" because my original post stated "a" breakaway as opposed to "his" or "the". Actually I haven't given thought to it other than there's no Steinman featured on HCTB, so to me and imo, it's not "Bat" format or "Bat" franchise.

[snider22]

Originally Posted by tink

Your stating it that way, I guess I'm saying "Meat's fourth breakaway album" because my original post stated "a" breakaway as opposed to "his" or "the". Actually I haven't given thought to it other than there's no Steinman featured on HCTB, so to me and imo, it's not "Bat" format or "Bat" franchise.

We can call it "This generations break away album" and the best one at that.

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by snider22

We can call it "This generations break away album" and the best one at that.

agreed