Hell And Back

[Gracie]

what are the chances of meat and jim doing a sort of bat 4 but not as we know it? meaning an album done entirely on their own with someone say Todd R at the producing helm!?!

I really Love his new music and the style of it's words and everything about it just great.

Any thoughts? Jim steinman must have some songs lerking about somewhere? They could time out and work on it I would be really thrilled if they did. I kinda know this might be a ''touchy subject'' for some people or who knows?

A curious mind is wondering how wonderful would it be if jim were to write meat some more songs....

A girl can dream can't she?


I mean I didn't like bat three all that much but The Future Ain't What It Used To Be made me realise again just how unique his voice is when he sings a jim steinman song.

BTW Loving the new cd!

-Grace x

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Gracie

I really Love his new music and the style of it's words and everything about it just great.

This seems to be somewhat out of context when talking about Meat working with Jimmy.
I don't believe that if they were working together the result would have been anything like HCTB, and I dare say (don't know because i've not heard it) HIHB.

I don't think material like that would ever be something created by Jim Steinman.


As for your question, Meat has said that he wouldn't do another Bat, but if he and Jim did it would be called (can't remember the exact title off the top of my head right now, something like.....) endings and conclusions.

Jim doesn't seem to have done a lot for a long time (except maybe design some clothes) and it looks like he's not going to be doing anything in the near future.

The Bat musical keeps being mentioned, but as I said last time it came up, Jesus Christ has booked tickets for opening night and it looks like they have to hold the curtain for him till he arrives.

I don't know if there is a great vault of unreleased songs. We all like to dream of some unknown treasure trove of music and lyrics waiting to be discovered, but I don't think the reality is quite that impressive.

Jim seems to be retired, and Meat is happy doing his own thing, so I don't think the chances of them working together again are very good at all.

But i'd love to be proved wrong.

[Gracie]

Okay I like reading your answer and thanks. I agree I really enjoy meat's new direction on Hell In A Handbasket, It's one of the top played albums on my i pod! :) HCTB was just as good so I am happy! I have always been a fan of Meat and even if they never work together ever again I am happy to know that we have those other songs...''Bat'' being My favourite of the Steinman/Loaf music.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Gracie

what are the chances of meat and jim doing a sort of bat 4 but not as we know it? meaning an album done entirely on their own with someone say Todd R at the producing helm!?!

They did. BOOH. I think the chances of that are slim. Meat;'s found a new path .. he simply always keeps the door open to someone he's known for so long

Caryl

[LucyK!]

Have to say, I'm not convinced that I even want Meat and Jim to work together again.

They were such a perfect pair together, I don't think anyone every has or ever will perform Jim's song like Meat does. Bat I was outstanding, as was Bat II. Bat III - with the combination of Jim and non-Jim songs - was less good in my opinion. It think if Meat and Jim got together again now it'd be the disappointment of the century.

Those two were made for each other at the time, but now is a different time for both of them, personally I say thoroughly love what we already have from them rather than pine for "just one more" and it not be what everyone hoped.

[CarylB]

I don't either Lucy. I agree with everything you say, (although personally I loved Bat3 as well).

But as you say, that was then. We have some memorable albums from them, and trying to go back isn't imo the answer .. plus we have some great new work from Meat to enjoy

Caryl

[LucyK!]

I love Bat III, some great songs and some even better memories with that one, but I don't love it in the way I do the other Bats, I find it more of a stand-alone album rather than part of a trilogy (gonna shut up there before someone starts an "it's not a proper Bat album" thread for the millionth time!)

I also think the press would have an absolute riot if Meat and Jim worked together again - there's a very real possibility that they'd see it not as a reunion of two men at the top of their games, but actually as a deperate attempt to rehash the success of 30 years ago. At least with Hang Cool or HIAH the press are judging them based on what Meat's doing now, even if they do give bad reviews they're at least reviews of the albums in their own right

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Lucy!

I also think the press would have an absolute riot if Meat and Jim worked together again - there's a very real possibility that they'd see it not as a reunion of two men at the top of their games, but actually as a deperate attempt to rehash the success of 30 years ago.

Yet it's the same press who are always commenting that Jim is not involved and wondering why

You just can't please them

[Cherry.Loaf]

Bat is wonderful but should be left as a trilogy. Another album would be good as long as it's not under the Bat title however if Jim was to contribute some tracks to another hiahb/hctb style album to make a trilogy of that I would definitely be for that

[Evil Ernie]

While I enjoy Meats current direction NOTHING compares to his work with Steinman.

I would give up CHSIB, BBIS, MATLAF, HCTB and HIAH for one full length album of Steinman songs.

I'm sure that most don't agree.

[LucyK!]

I agree...sort of!

I definitely think the best albums are the Steinman ones, whilst the others are great in their own right I think *the* Meat albums are the Jim ones. Without doubt.

My concern would be that if Meat and Jim did an album now in 2012 it wouldn't be the masterpiece that everyone expects it would be...as I said, I tink Jim & Meat were right for each other in '77 with Bat, and clearly right for each other again in the early 90's for Bat II, I just wonder whether they've been apart too long now and anything they did together would almost be a token gesture of "Meat and Jim" rather than a real meant-to-be partnership.

[duke knooby]

as a fan of meat, and mr steinman, i'd love to hear more of what they could do together. i haven't loved every song they've done together or apart, but they have made so many great songs together, i'm sure there could be more great songs to come if they did work together again.

as meat has said he would be up for a few more songs with steinman...

who am i say to that it would be a mistake, or a bad musical direction to take...

if it happens, fantastic.. i'll judge the product when or if i hear it

if it doesn't happen... that wont change what has gone before, and we can enjoy what we have

[Kathy]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

While I enjoy Meats current direction NOTHING compares to his work with Steinman.

I would give up CHSIB, BBIS, MATLAF, HCTB and HIAH for one full length album of Steinman songs.

I'm sure that most don't agree.

No, I wouldn't make such a trade. I'll agree that nothing can compare to BOOH, but although many have said that, they usually attribute the reason to Jim Steinman. I believe instead that there was a rare perfect storm of factors coming together, swirling around in the heavens like Starry Night, and giving us BOOH. I say this in hindsight, because until I heard HCTB, and now HIAH, I didn't realize just how profoundly moving Meat's recorded voice can be, when it's high in the mix and done just the way he wants it.

Could Meat make an album of Steinman songs that I would love as much as I love these last two? Yes, I'm sure he could! He'd have to have control, though.

-Kathy

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by Kathy

No, I wouldn't make such a trade. I'll agree that nothing can compare to BOOH, but although many have said that, they usually attribute the reason to Jim Steinman. I believe instead that there was a rare perfect storm of factors coming together, swirling around in the heavens like Starry Night, and giving us BOOH. I say this in hindsight, because until I heard HCTB, and now HIAH, I didn't realize just how profoundly moving Meat's recorded voice can be, when it's high in the mix and done just the way he wants it.

Could Meat make an album of Steinman songs that I would love as much as I love these last two? Yes, I'm sure he could! He'd have to have control, though.

-Kathy

The only reason we have the non steinman albums from Meat we have is that Jim does not write like a juke box. He takes forever to do anything. I can't speak for anyone but my opinion is that Meat would definitely do a steinman album in a second. Like it or not, his biggest hits have been steinman songs.
He knows that and I'm sure he would give anything to have another opportunity to record steinman songs. Meat could easily do. To say he couldn't sing them, as other boards claim, has been put to rest with the release of the last two albums.
I think that the two of them working on another project would be very exciting and the result would be worth the effort.

[CarylB]

Like Kathy I would not make that trade either. I agree that BOOH was a one in a million and like her attribute it to more than just the composer. The songs were epic, but so was the man who sang them. The blend of factors was right and right to catch a tide that made it a lasting phenomenon. I'm sure he'd be extremely happy to make another album of Steinman penned songs, but again I agree with Kathy, he'd need to have control, because the way he sounds now is perfect, and to me too more profoundly moving the way it is delivered now, and I would not want that lost.

But Lucy made a very good point about expectations, plus there seems little evidence that Steinman is actively composing, so I think it may be academic. True, Steinman doesn't "write like a jukebox", nor is Meat recording songs penned like one in my view. Would BOOH catch the same tide now? We'll never know, because it did at the time and has become etched in music history. Were Steinman to compose some songs now that were right for Meat I'm sure he'd be delighted to record them. But I don't think Meat is chasing the impossible .. ie another BOOH, because times have changed, that was a one-off and won't be repeated.

Meat has found a superb new path, and I have no desire to see him shift from it. He has also said repeatedly that what matters most to him is that the work is good; CHSIB was good, and BCTB and HIAH are very good indeed. Lucy said " love what we already have from them rather than pine for 'just one more'", and I agree. If it should happen I'd greet it with the delight I greeted CHSIB and now HCTB and HIAH, but no more .. because these are Meat's own great albums and I could not want better. These songs do not only capture my imagination, they capture my soul.

Caryl

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Kathy

No, I wouldn't make such a trade. I'll agree that nothing can compare to BOOH, but although many have said that, they usually attribute the reason to Jim Steinman. I believe instead that there was a rare perfect storm of factors coming together, swirling around in the heavens like Starry Night, and giving us BOOH. I say this in hindsight, because until I heard HCTB, and now HIAH, I didn't realize just how profoundly moving Meat's recorded voice can be, when it's high in the mix and done just the way he wants it.

Could Meat make an album of Steinman songs that I would love as much as I love these last two? Yes, I'm sure he could! He'd have to have control, though.

-Kathy

My favorite Meat albums are DR, BOOH2 and BOOH.

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

The only reason we have the non steinman albums from Meat we have is that Jim does not write like a juke box. He takes forever to do anything. I can't speak for anyone but my opinion is that Meat would definitely do a steinman album in a second. Like it or not, his biggest hits have been steinman songs.
He knows that and I'm sure he would give anything to have another opportunity to record steinman songs. Meat could easily do. To say he couldn't sing them, as other boards claim, has been put to rest with the release of the last two albums.
I think that the two of them working on another project would be very exciting and the result would be worth the effort.

I will point out that BOOH2 was half covers. He only produced 4 new tracks (I don't count BIH as a real track).

He could easily put together an album in the same way with covers and new material that we all know exists.

Even if Jim isn't there as a producer he could just supply the songs and pass production onto Steven Rinkoff or Todd Rundgren. Get Rory Dodd and Kasim back on board and you could put out a great album among the top in ML's arsenal.

And if he couldn't sing new songs in the studio than he wouldn't be able to sing the older ones live.

[melon]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I don't either Lucy. I agree with everything you say, (although personally I loved Bat3 as well).

But as you say, that was then. We have some memorable albums from them, and trying to go back isn't imo the answer .. plus we have some great new work from Meat to enjoy

Caryl

Can't go backwards to go forwards

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I would give up CHSIB, BBIS, MATLAF, HCTB and HIAH for one full length album of Steinman songs.

I wouldn't

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I'm sure that most don't agree.

You're right there.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

My favorite Meat albums are DR, BOOH2 and BOOH.




I will point out that BOOH2 was half covers. He only produced 4 new tracks (I don't count BIH as a real track).

He could easily put together an album in the same way with covers and new material that we all know exists.

Even if Jim isn't there as a producer he could just supply the songs and pass production onto Steven Rinkoff or Todd Rundgren. Get Rory Dodd and Kasim back on board and you could put out a great album among the top in ML's arsenal.

And if he couldn't sing new songs in the studio than he wouldn't be able to sing the older ones live.

Your right about the covers but as they were supposed to be sung by Meat to begin with, not sure if that counts.
Forget about Rory as he seems to be doing quite well with realestate now and I'm not sure Kasim has the time due to his own schedule. Neither one is all that necessary.
In all honesty, Paul Crook can do just as good a job as Todd. I was very impressed by HIAHB and think that he did a great job.
I really think that if Meat was to work with Jim again, it would be more of a group effort.
Read the liner notes for BAT 2, Steinman produced but the arrangements were done by a group. And right now, Meat has far more pull with the entertainment industry than Jim has ever had.

[loaferman61]

I really think Steinman retired and just forgot to tell anyone. The Bat Musical is a pipe dream, nowhere near ever happening. Jim either has a treasure trove of songs done which at his pace could be only a handful, or he has bits and pieces set to the same tunes he recycles and maybe some lyrics scribbled on backs of napkins. While he is hopeful, I think Meat has wisely moved along in his own direction.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Your right about the covers but as they were supposed to be sung by Meat to begin with, not sure if that counts.

Forget about Rory as he seems to be doing quite well with realestate now and I'm not sure Kasim has the time due to his own schedule. Neither one is all that necessary.

IMO all the originals that we're covered on BOOH 2 were better.

And I couldn't disagree more on Rory, Kasim and Todd. The background vocals on all 3 albums with Meat and 'Bad For Good' enhanced these albums immeasurably IMO. Not to mention all the other Steinman stuff in the 80s.

[Mr. Happy]

http://broadwayworld.com/article/BWW..._More_20110102

If that's to be believed, then apparently Jim has a shit tonne of stuff stashed away somewhere. Whether it's ever going to see the light of day or not is another question I agree with the fact that Meat was wise to move along, however. If he didn't, we'd still be waiting on a new album 6 or 7 years onward from Bat 3. And I like my Hang Cool Teddy Bear, thank you very much

Either way, the material for a Meat/Jim album IS there (sort of). We know of the existence of four or five songs:

What Part of my Body
Still the Children
Braver Than We Are
The Graveyard Shift
Only When I Feel
Vaults of Heaven?

There's nothing to say Jim hasn't got more tucked away somewhere. It's just a matter of whether or not he wants to use it...and judging from everything out there, he doesn't

[Gracie]

intersting opinions! thanks! :)

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

http://broadwayworld.com/article/BWW..._More_20110102

If that's to be believed, then apparently Jim has a shit tonne of stuff stashed away somewhere. Whether it's ever going to see the light of day or not is another question I agree with the fact that Meat was wise to move along, however. If he didn't, we'd still be waiting on a new album 6 or 7 years onward from Bat 3. And I like my Hang Cool Teddy Bear, thank you very much

Either way, the material for a Meat/Jim album IS there (sort of). We know of the existence of four or five songs:

What Part of my Body
Still the Children
Braver Than We Are
The Graveyard Shift
Only When I Feel
Vaults of Heaven?

There's nothing to say Jim hasn't got more tucked away somewhere. It's just a matter of whether or not he wants to use it...and judging from everything out there, he doesn't

I doubt he has much more in the way of finished songs then what you have listed. Jim is very notorious for jotting down different lyrics and when push comes to shove he can string them together and make a great song. A lot of his songs are cliched or everyday sayings which makes them even more memorable.
If he wanted to he could probably write a double album. But has he got that many songs completed right now? I doubt it.