New Interview

[2jaxx]

Meat receives no royalties, his writers do...

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by 2jaxx

Meat receives no royalties, his writers do...

Uh... No. That's not how it works dude.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Uh... No. That's not how it works dude.

Yeah, that's right- the writers and the publishers do. Producer too- maybe.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by PanicLord

I see, fair enough.

Here's an interesting question then imho lol... I have bought many CDs which I have then ripped onto my pc and copied to my iPod. On many occasions I have had a clearout when the shelf got full, selling the CDs. Now the official position is that I should get rid of the mp3s I made now that I no longer have the CD. I can't see why this should be the case. I paid my dues when I bought the CD. This gives me the right to access those songs and make a personal copy. what I then do with the physical medium is up to me and surely should have no impact on my personal copy? Unless I'm missing something?

The thing is that when you buy a CD, all you buy is the plastic thingy, and a license to play the music it contains. You don't actually *buy* the music, just the right to play it. Same with mp3s from Amazon, iTunes, etc.

And that's where it—imo, ianal—gets tricky:
One could argue that since you pay a license, you're free to do whatever you want with the container.
On the other hand, you could argue that since you sell the CD, you no longer have the license to play it's content.

I don't know.

[chairboys]

On a slightly different note - do I need to seek out every store manager to provide proof he has clearance to play music in his shop (a public place) because I wouldn't want to discover new artists illegally??

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by PanicLord

I see, fair enough.

Here's an interesting question then imho lol... I have bought many CDs which I have then ripped onto my pc and copied to my iPod. On many occasions I have had a clearout when the shelf got full, selling the CDs. Now the official position is that I should get rid of the mp3s I made now that I no longer have the CD. I can't see why this should be the case. I paid my dues when I bought the CD. This gives me the right to access those songs and make a personal copy. what I then do with the physical medium is up to me and surely should have no impact on my personal copy? Unless I'm missing something?

That's an interesting question. I don't know for sure but I think legally you are entitled to do that as like you say you have paid for the CD originally.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

IMO, famous musicians make enough money as it is. If I take money out of their pocket, I dont have any sympathy for them at all.

So theft is OK as long as it's from people you have decided have enough money. I guess the people who broke into my home and removed my VCRs, camcorder, most of my jewellery etc plus a suitcase to carry it off in thought the same.

Oh and if you cancel a show, you make it up at a later date. Otherwise I will always hold it against you. THAT is an extreme disservice to your fans.

The reality is that performers are susceptible to illness, however wealthy you decide they must be, and however hard they try and guard against it, as well as theft. The tour carries insurance so that if a show is cancelled, or stopped after 60 minutes, you get your money back if the show cannot be rescheduled. Rescheduling is not merely at the discretion of the performer. The venue may be unable to provide a date that is feasible. Not without cancelling another performer's show so that her fans can hold it against her forever

Originally Posted by chairboys

On a slightly different note - do I need to seek out every store manager to provide proof he has clearance to play music in his shop (a public place) because I wouldn't want to discover new artists illegally??

Let's add Performing Rights to the mix

Caryl

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by 2jaxx

Meat receives no royalties, his writers do...

The writers get a bigger percentage than Meat but Meat does get royalties

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by chairboys

On a slightly different note - do I need to seek out every store manager to provide proof he has clearance to play music in his shop (a public place) because I wouldn't want to discover new artists illegally??

Only if you can't easily see the license which has to be clearly displayed to allow the store to broadcast music over its sound system. Most large (chains) shops are covered, it's the local independents who have a CD or the radio playing that are more than likely in breach.

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

IMO, famous musicians make enough money as it is. If I take money out of their pocket, I dont have any sympathy for them at all.

The exceptions would be smaller bands that are on Indy labels. I'll buy their stuff, because they can actually use the cash. An artist like ML or Aerosmith make money doing nothing but collecting royalty cheques from their vast catalogue. If you make any money whatsoever, you are extremely lucky. Same with actors, but IMO actors are even less deserving that musicians.

If they want to make money off of me than you tour. If you come to my area I will buy a ticket and some merchandise. Give me an experience that I cant DL. Oh and if you cancel a show, you make it up at a later date. Otherwise I will always hold it against you. THAT is an extreme disservice to your fans.

I couldn't disagree less with this if I tried. I'm not sure if you're deliberately trying to start an argument with people or whether it's what you actually believe. I'll go with it being what you believe, because I don't want this thread descending into a war. I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

[chairboys]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

An artist like ML or Aerosmith make money doing nothing but collecting royalty cheques from their vast catalogue. If you make any money whatsoever, you are extremely lucky. Same with actors, but IMO actors are even less deserving that musicians.

It does get complicated then with how "deserving" Meat is. Depends whether he is acting or singing!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by robgomm

I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

Good idea, for all the reasons you gave

Caryl

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by evil nickname

The thing is that when you buy a CD, all you buy is the plastic thingy, and a license to play the music it contains. You don't actually *buy* the music, just the right to play it. Same with mp3s from Amazon, iTunes, etc.

And that's where it—imo, ianal—gets tricky:
One could argue that since you pay a license, you're free to do whatever you want with the container.
On the other hand, you could argue that since you sell the CD, you no longer have the license to play it's content.

I don't know.

My understanding is - at least in the USA- under fair use if you own the physical copy legally you have the right to make backup copies for your own use (ipods, etc.). Who is going to buy a physical CD then turn around and buy it again from itunes for your ipod when you own a copy legally? The day you made the copy for your ipod you were the owner. If later you decide to sell it then you are selling the physical copy of an item you own legally so that should not be an issue. You are not selling the song on your MP3 player that you made legally. I think it was Garth Brooks who started all this when stores started selling used CD's before there was ebay. A physical CD is personal property and can be sold. I think what is more of an issue is one person buys a CD and loans it to friends to rip to their ipods or computers. If the friend likes the songs he keeps them, if not he deletes them, but he never paid for a copy.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Yeah, that's right- the writers and the publishers do. Producer too- maybe.

You really think that the performing artist doesn't get royalties? Than how do they make money?

EVERYBODY involved gets royalties. Not all equal, but they get them.

Yes, it's true that publishing rights are the most valuable, but not the only piece of the pie.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by CarylB

So theft is OK as long as it's from people you have decided have enough money. I guess the people who broke into my home and removed my VCRs, camcorder, most of my jewellery etc plus a suitcase to carry it off in thought the same.

Well it's okay if I get a copy of your belongings and you get to keep them.

Completely different.

And it's not that its 'okay'. Its that I don't have sympathy for artists who are already filthy rich.

The reality is that performers are susceptible to illness, however wealthy you decide they must be, and however hard they try and guard against it, as well as theft. The tour carries insurance so that if a show is cancelled, or stopped after 60 minutes, you get your money back if the show cannot be rescheduled. Rescheduling is not merely at the discretion of the performer. The venue may be unable to provide a date that is feasible. Not without cancelling another performer's show so that her fans can hold it against her forever



Let's add Performing Rights to the mix

Caryl

The reality is that he COULD have done a make up show. I live in Canada and he lives in the US. Its not like he has to come back to India. The venue was not booked solid and we have many other places to play.

I don't care about the money. I wanted a show. I have a right to be upset.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by robgomm

I couldn't disagree less with this if I tried. I'm not sure if you're deliberately trying to start an argument with people or whether it's what you actually believe. I'll go with it being what you believe, because I don't want this thread descending into a war. I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

Uh okay....

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

The reality is that he COULD have done a make up show. I live in Canada and he lives in the US. Its not like he has to come back to India. He just didn't care enough.

A disgusting thing to say imo. Meat cares so much about his fans he takes time out to answer their facebook questions, take the time to come here etc. What other artist does that kind of thing?

You saying he didn't care enough is just a feeling and an opinion, not a fact. How do you know what happened? Maybe like Caryl said the venue wouldn't allow him to reschedule, maybe he already had too many things he had already promised to do afterwards, film roles etc. Who knows the reasons why, either way you cannot say he didn't care enough unless you know the facts, and until you do I think you should take that back.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by chairboys

It does get complicated then with how "deserving" Meat is. Depends whether he is acting or singing!

What I mean is that musicians and actors get to do something fun for a living. They have talent, true, but it's still something that isn't a real job.

Not to say that they shouldn't get the money, because corporations are making tons of money off of them. Why should they keep it all? It's just that if I download a CD I have no problem taking that potential money out of both the artists hands and the record companies.

For the record, I have paid for every ML CD except for HIAH.

No guilt.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by robgomm

A disgusting thing to say imo. Meat cares so much about his fans he takes time out to answer their facebook questions, take the time to come here etc. What other artist does that kind of thing?

You saying he didn't care enough is just a feeling and an opinion, not a fact. How do you know what happened? Maybe like Caryl said the venue wouldn't allow him to reschedule, maybe he already had too many things he had already promised to do afterwards, film roles etc. Who knows the reasons why, either way you cannot say he didn't care enough unless you know the facts, and until you do I think you should take that back.

Okay fine.

I'm sorry Meat.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

And it's not that its 'okay'. Its that I don't have sympathy for artists who are already filthy rich.

Even use of the phrase "filthy rich" speaks volumes.

The reality is that he COULD have done a make up show. I live in Canada and he lives in the US. Its not like he has to come back to India. The venue was not booked solid and we have many other places to play.

I don't care about the money. I wanted a show. I have a right to be upset.

You do not know what the reality was. And when you say "he" so dismissively, rescheduling shows is a complex issue involving a huge number of people, including the promoter, band members who have their own careers and commitments, crew, truckers, and ancilliary staff as well as the venue availability, and the insurers .. and not simply a case of Meat flying up to Canada.

Be disappointed by all means. I have been disappointed when shows I was hoping to see have been cancelled because of illness. I also remind myself that the person who is equally, if not more upset is Meat, who will struggle on with a show even when advised against it if he can manage it. And I reappoint.

This is the man who replayed the Wembley show, during which he collapsed, at his own expense when he came out of hospital after his heart surgery, because he had been on stage for more than an hour, the insurance would this not kick in, and he felt his fans had been short-changed. He did this because it could be arranged, and because he does not try and squeeze and keep every penny he can, but is generous and kind. Sometimes shows can be rescheduled, and I have been to several such concerts; sometimes they cannot, and I accept that as something Meat feels really, really bad about, but was outside his control.

That you will always hold something like this against an artist also speaks volumes.

Caryl

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

What I mean is that musicians and actors get to do something fun for a living. They have talent, true, but it's still something that isn't a real job.

.

I always like to "dumb" it down to the level of ... Meat sings, acts, etc for a living and I work in an office for a living... Working for a living is working for a living no matter what you do ... and to hear tell ... sometimes what actors and singers do for a living is not so much fun ...

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by PanicLord

I see, fair enough.

Here's an interesting question then imho lol... I have bought many CDs which I have then ripped onto my pc and copied to my iPod. On many occasions I have had a clearout when the shelf got full, selling the CDs. Now the official position is that I should get rid of the mp3s I made now that I no longer have the CD. I can't see why this should be the case. I paid my dues when I bought the CD. This gives me the right to access those songs and make a personal copy. what I then do with the physical medium is up to me and surely should have no impact on my personal copy? Unless I'm missing something?

THat would be the same as buying an album from a shop, copying it onto your PC, and then selling it on.
Two people have the album, one unit has been sold.
You don't need to be an accountant to see that that is bad for business.

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

IMO, famous musicians make enough money as it is. If I take money out of their pocket, I dont have any sympathy for them at all.

But legally, you don't get to make the rules do you?

You want the product, you pay the price.
It's known as trade.

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

The exceptions would be smaller bands that are on Indy labels. I'll buy their stuff, because they can actually use the cash. An artist like ML or Aerosmith make money doing nothing but collecting royalty cheques from their vast catalogue.

So you don't mind paying for music, just as long as they are not too successful?

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

If you make any money whatsoever, you are extremely lucky.

Especially when every b@stard is stealing your work for free

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Same with actors, but IMO actors are even less deserving that musicians.

I take it then you don't watch movies, or fictional TV programs, and have no interest in their future production?

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

If you come to my area I will buy a ticket and some merchandise.

Official merchandise or bootleged merchandise?
You wouldn't want to go filling the pockets of someone who's got to much already

You could always make your own by getting a plain white T shirt and writting Meat Loaf over the front with a magic marker

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Oh and if you cancel a show, you make it up at a later date. Otherwise I will always hold it against you. THAT is an extreme disservice to your fans.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook

Originally Posted by chairboys

On a slightly different note - do I need to seek out every store manager to provide proof he has clearance to play music in his shop (a public place) because I wouldn't want to discover new artists illegally??

Shops have got to pay to play music in their store. If they don't they're breaking the law.
I don't think many managers would try and get round that, given the concequences.

Wether you should go ask every manager if he is legally playing the music is down to a combination of two factors.

1. How much time you have on your hands.

2. How invested you are in the subject.

If the answer to the first is "lots", and the answer to the second is "very" let us know how you get on

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

The reality is that he COULD have done a make up show. I live in Canada and he lives in the US. Its not like he has to come back to India. The venue was not booked solid and we have many other places to play.

I don't care about the money. I wanted a show. I have a right to be upset.

^^^^ Explains a lot.

So you don't like the big bad nasty successful rock star because he had to cancel a gig near you and never got a chance to rebook it?

Dude.

Sometimes gigs get cancelled. Especially when the artist (no offence to him here) is in his 60's. People get sick, especially when they are doing a hard job.
And Meat is not known for taking it easy on himself.

Do you think that Meat picks every place he plays?
He has tour agents for that, and what might work on one tour might not work on another.

Between tours the venue might put the price up, or have some sort of falling out with the tour company Meat uses.

The people working on Meat's tour might have a good working relationship with certain venue managers (it would surprise me if this were not true) , so it's those people they call first when planing a tour rather than calling a theater they don't know very well, or perhaps have never dealt with at all.

The tour company might decide that venues in other places are more fruitful, easier to fill, and more in line with the bigger tour picture.

They might just be remiss.

Don't just assume that Meat is at fault without at least getting some answers first.


I was wondering what your earlier comment about canceled shows had to do with anything (as it was way off the topic) but it's easier to think someone doesn't deserve money when you think they have done you a personal wrong.

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Okay fine.

I'm sorry Meat.

Ernie, it seems to me that you're still upset about Meat not being able to make your show and then he was unable to make it up ... We aren't privvy to the whys in most instances ... I had the same thing happen to me a couple years back... I was upset in a sad way ... but got over it rather quickly ... You really should let it go ... Life's too short to be so angry about something no one can do anything about at this point in time ... Take care...

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Sue K

Ernie, it seems to me that you're still upset about Meat not being able to make your show and then he was unable to make it up ... We aren't privvy to the whys in most instances ... I had the same thing happen to me a couple years back... I was upset in a sad way ... but got over it rather quickly ... You really should let it go ... Life's too short to be so angry about something no one can do anything about at this point in time ... Take care...

You guys are funny.

I don't care that much. If I did than I wouldn't be on this board. I still like ML, I just don't give him as much leeway as some you guys do. Forgive, but don't forget.

Theres a difference between rebooking Wembley Stadium and rebooking Rexall Place. That's really what I meant by him not caring enough. It's not to say that I didn't understand, but other artists have rebooked... Or at least included them on the next tour.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by stretch37

I didn't know who Meat Loaf was until I randomly saw the video for CHSIB on a random website and happened to play it. I proceeded to pirate Meat Loaf's discography and become obessed with him.

since then I've spent REAL money on 5 concerts, and each new CD and DVD that has been released.

Originally Posted by Evil One

But have you bought the rest of his discography?

Originally Posted by Monstro

And that's the killer question

A killer question that still goes unanswered...