Live Downloads

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

I think that Meat is at a point in his career where even if everything DID post recordings like this and they DID get illegally shared to hell and back, it can't possibly have any negative effect anyway. He's made all the money he could ever need, already has a reputation as an amazing life artist...having downloads being pirated won't change that. On top of that, there would be very little expense involved (and the little there is would be covered by the people that DO buy it anyway), you greatly please your fanbase, and you also solidify your legacy as an influential, historic live performer. So what if people pirate it? Is it really that big a deal?

If he's worried about people's opinion of his current / post Bat 3 voice, then just put up older concerts. Bat 2 era would be incredible

Of course, at the end of the day it might just come down to the fact that he's just not interested in it. Which is also fair enough and entirely his right. He's the artist, after all :)

I like your post. Judging by the reviews in Europe I don't think the voice issue or perhaps non issue, ever came up. I was impressed by what I saw on YouTube and I was ready to be disappointed as it was recorded on cell phones.
Still captured the pure essence of his performance. Not quite as good as being there of course but beggars can't be choosers

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

I was ready to be disappointed as it was recorded on cell phones.

I don't understand why people think that a clip sounds bad JUST because it was recorded on a cell phone. I've recorded some AMAZING sounding concert clips on my cell phones.

Fact is that most will perform average the majority of the time, but sometimes they'll simply blow you away... or severely disappoint you.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I've recorded some AMAZING sounding concert clips on my cell phones.

I was able to recorder a couple of near perfect clips from Meat's final show in Columbus OH from my iPhone. I never did post them anywhere, as they are like vine short. No clipping, picture is great, good quality.

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I don't understand why people think that a clip sounds bad JUST because it was recorded on a cell phone. I've recorded some AMAZING sounding concert clips on my cell phones.

Fact is that most will perform average the majority of the time, but sometimes they'll simply blow you away... or severely disappoint you.

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

Indeed. Though you are blatantly talking about Meat

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

I HATE when artists overdub live albums. This is why I prefer bootlegs to official live.

I want to hear the performance. Good and Bad. I want to hear bad notes, instruments out of tune, the singers voice crack every now and then, etc...

[Evil One]

I have no issue with overdubs to correct a particularly bad part, otherwise you're left with 3 Bats Live. However if many overdubs are required then just redo the whole lot, otherwise it stands out like a sore thumb.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I HATE when artists overdub live albums. This is why I prefer bootlegs to official live.

I want to hear the performance. Good and Bad. I want to hear bad notes, instruments out of tune, the singers voice crack every now and then, etc...

This is an official release- sounds like he gargled with broken glass:

http://youtu.be/OrkOiYnhxIE

In fairness, it was the second show they'd played in less than 24 hours...


I've yet to hear what one of the new downloads sounds like- I'm waiting for the second show from Cape Town to be posted.

Btw- It seems as if Prince dropped the lawsuit. Most likely was just a ploy all along to get sites to stop posting shows.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

This is an official release- sounds like he gargled with broken glass:

http://youtu.be/OrkOiYnhxIE

In fairness, it was the second show they'd played in less than 24 hours...


I've yet to hear what one of the new downloads sounds like- I'm waiting for the second show from Cape Town to be posted.

Btw- It seems as if Prince dropped the lawsuit. Most likely was just a ploy all along to get sites to stop posting shows.

If I remember right he wasn't feeling all that great...

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

If I remember right he wasn't feeling all that great...

Yeah, he got the flu or something right before the Euro leg that year- his voice was really rough for a while, though it did improve. Last tour has been fantastic!

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Indeed. Though you are blatantly talking about Meat

No. Several performers fall under this. I don't really want to name any but I will name one- Vince Neil. Overdubbed DVD, live videos pulled from the internet, and he has the audience sing half the song. A sure sign his voice is shot IMO.
There you dragged a name out of me
Why did you assume I meant Meat necessarily? Most reviews on here attest that he sounds great.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

No. Several performers fall under this. I don't really want to name any but I will name one- Vince Neil. Overdubbed DVD, live videos pulled from the internet, and he has the audience sing half the song. A sure sign his voice is shot IMO.
There you dragged a name out of me
Why did you assume I meant Meat necessarily? Most reviews on here attest that he sounds great.

Because we're on a Meat Loaf forum, discussing Meat Loaf? Actually, I just wanted to see if you'd bite, but you didn't. I'd have to agree on the Vince Neil issue, though.

[stretch37]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

Saw Meat live in Oregon during the hang cool tour and he sounded better than RAH. Because of the randomness of when his shows are great, medium, not so great, i wish he'd release more audio of the great ones....That way, overdubbing wouldn't be necessary at all...and I know he dislikes it as much as any

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Bottom line is that the music business is changing, almost everyday. I can respect that Meat wants to do things his way and I have no problem with that. But I hope he understands that his fans in North America did not see his last at bat concerts in Europe and the only way have any idea of how great they were is through youtube.

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

It doesn't matter what ever one else is doing. It's just an interesting twist to how things are changing. Everyone has their own choice to make and thats fine.
I appreciate being able to see what I can't attend.[...]

I am saying how much I appreciate the youtube concerts that are up there as they were put together with an obvious amount of care.

As I'm sitting here, I've just finished listening to a concert that was played on the other side of the world less than a week ago, in it's entirety. I was thinking about how, not all that long ago, this would not have been possible, yet today it's commonplace- that blows my mind! In the past, I've watched live webcasts while simultaneously "chatting" with friends all over the world who are also watching the same show- how cool is that?

One of the things I love about the internet is how it has effectively shrunk the world- just think for instance of all the different places the people on this board come from.

It's awesome as a music fan to be able to share with each other, and to get to see what we've missed. Of course, there's nothing like being there, but it's a lot of fun to be able to "follow the tour", even if it is virtually.

Originally Posted by JennaG

There will always be fans in some part of the world who did not see a particular tour.
The USA were the only people to see the Mad, Mad World tour for example but I don't think it gives us ay right to expect to see them on YouTube. If they're there and you want to watch them, then watch them and enjoy them but if they're not then it's tough luck.

This sounds a bit harsh to me; why the need for exclusivity? We got this, but you got that, so "tough luck"? Isn't it better if everyone gets a chance to see what they missed? Not everyone can travel to shows, for many reasons. I don't think fans have a "right" to expect to see shows on YouTube, for example, but I think artists who allow this kind of thing (and there are many) show a lot of goodwill towards fans. The main motivation these days is not to make money, or to get something for free- it's for enjoyment. Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves).

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

It's the sort of thing we won't see again once it's gone and then all we will have left are whatever recordings that were created.

This is true.

Originally Posted by loaferman61

No. Several performers fall under this. I don't really want to name any but I will name one- Vince Neil. Overdubbed DVD, live videos pulled from the internet, and he has the audience sing half the song. A sure sign his voice is shot IMO.

I'm curious if anyone here is a Bob Dylan fan at all (I'm not), what his stance is regarding bootlegs/YouTube? I've heard enough of him live recently to know that his voice is totally shot, though from what I know about him, I doubt he much cares. I also know he is one of the top most-bootlegged artists, so I'm curious.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I don't think fans have a "right" to expect to see shows on YouTube, for example, but I think artists who allow this kind of thing (and there are many) show a lot of goodwill towards fans. The main motivation these days is not to make money, or to get something for free- it's for enjoyment. Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves).

As this is in the forum for "Discussions about literally everything related to Meat Loaf." I'll just say that Meat shows a lot of goodwill to his fans in many other ways, including more on-line interaction with them.

I'd also say that I follow Meat rather than a band, and for 20 years did this pretty much alone, no sharing with other fans, and still had a blast Some may, as you say, consider the greatest part of following a performer is sharing with other fans rather than being about the artist .. but not me

I'm curious if anyone here is a Bob Dylan fan at all (I'm not), what his stance is regarding bootlegs/YouTube? I've heard enough of him live recently to know that his voice is totally shot, though from what I know about him, I doubt he much cares. I also know he is one of the top most-bootlegged artists, so I'm curious.

No idea. I went to a concert some years ago, his voice (which was never great imo) was, as you say, completely shot. I kept nodding off, so would never even be tempted to look for a bootleg

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by CarylB

As this is in the forum for "Discussions about literally everything related to Meat Loaf." I'll just say that Meat shows a lot of goodwill to his fans in many other ways, including more on-line interaction with them.

I never said he didn't, nor is Meat the only artist who interacts with his fans online. I just said that fans of said artists/bands enjoy and appreciate it.

Originally Posted by CarylB

I'd also say that I follow Meat rather than a band, and for 20 years did this pretty much alone, no sharing with other fans, and still had a blast Some may, as you say, consider the greatest part of following a performer is sharing with other fans rather than being about the artist .. but not me

Maybe you don't follow a band, but fans of U2, Pearl Jam, Phish, Metallica, etc. do; they have lots of hardcore fans who travel the world to see them, just as you do to see Meat. His fanbase is far from unique in that respect.

Of course it's possible to be a fan of anyone or anything alone (I have, too), but it's a lot more fun, IMO, to share with like-minded individuals- why else would forums like this one exist? People make lifelong friends traveling to and seeing shows together- it becomes an activity in and of itself, separate from the artist or band. Consider Star Trek or comic book fans- I think music fans are similar in many ways. Sharing, collecting and trading shows is a part of that.

Originally Posted by CarylB

No idea. I went to a concert some years ago, his voice (which was never great imo) was, as you say, completely shot. I kept nodding off, so would never even be tempted to look for a bootleg

But yet, he has many fans who love and travel to his shows, and do seek out and collect bootlegs. Of course, Dylan has also released lots of them officially.

[CarylB]

And I simply observed in this Meat related thread, that he does show a lot of goodwill towards his fans, and imo he is more interactive on his FB page than many. You said "Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves)." Again, I was just observing that for me it isn't, nor btw would I consider that visiting the USA to see Meat's shows as well as going to those in my own small country makes me a world traveller You asked about Bob Dylan .. I just gave my perspective.

I also agree with Evil .. Churning out every soundboard of every show is quantity over quality and that's not a good idea. Imo Meat will leave a legacy of great recordings and DVDs, and I am happy with that

This is in the Meat forum .. Meat has made his position clear, and has finished touring anyway .. so I'm not sure why yet another thread pointing out that other artists sell or distribute live recordings or happily embrace bootlegs is in it .. unless to point out again that Meat doesn't and somehow find him wanting as a performer.

Issuing a DVD of his residency show will be a matter for SPI Entertainment I think, not Meat alone. If they do that will be great and I'd buy it. If they don't, doubtless some bootlegger will try and capture it, and those who want will doubtless find it. But I do not think they, or Meat, will be selling or issuing live recordings, nor encouraging bootlegs, however much evidence people post here that other artists, still touring, do.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

This sounds a bit harsh to me; why the need for exclusivity? We got this, but you got that, so "tough luck"? Isn't it better if everyone gets a chance to see what they missed? Not everyone can travel to shows, for many reasons.

Don't you think I KNOW that not everyone can travel? I would LOVE to be able to go to Las Vegas to see what is probably the best show of Meat's career but I'm stuck in the miserable UK and there are several people I know who'd have liked to have seen LAB but they couldn't travel here to be able to see it either.

The tough luck comment does not refer to the fact that the USA got MMW and the UK got LAB. It refers to the presence of the recordings from these shows. Yes it would be nice if all fans got the chance to see what they missed but we don't live in an ideal world. All I'm saying is that you can't really complain if the artist involved decides that they don't like the bootleg recordings that are out there and has them removed. I don't think it's down to the fact that Meat doesn't care about his fans enjoyment and I think he shows goodwill to his fans in plenty of other ways.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by CarylB

And I simply observed in this Meat related thread, that he does show a lot of goodwill towards his fans, and imo he is more interactive on his FB page than many. You said "Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves)." Again, I was just observing that for me it isn't, nor btw would I consider that visiting the USA to see Meat's shows as well as going to those in my own small country makes me a world traveller You asked about Bob Dylan .. I just gave my perspective.

I also agree with Evil .. Churning out every soundboard of every show is quantity over quality and that's not a good idea. Imo Meat will leave a legacy of great recordings and DVDs, and I am happy with that

This is in the Meat forum .. Meat has made his position clear, and has finished touring anyway .. so I'm not sure why yet another thread pointing out that other artists sell or distribute live recordings or happily embrace bootlegs is in it .. unless to point out again that Meat doesn't and somehow find him wanting as a performer.

Issuing a DVD of his residency show will be a matter for SPI Entertainment I think, not Meat alone. If they do that will be great and I'd buy it. If they don't, doubtless some bootlegger will try and capture it, and those who want will doubtless find it. But I do not think they, or Meat, will be selling or issuing live recordings, nor encouraging bootlegs, however much evidence people post here that other artists, still touring, do.

The point to the post was not to compare Meat to any other artist. He is in a league of his own. Nor was it to say that he should do this or do that or that fans are owed anything.
I just found it interesting how the music business is changing.
You have said in the past that you don't believe that anything should be posted on youtube as Meat has issues with that.
You have said it detracts from his performance.
Well I notice that redpony has left the last at bat youtube videos alone.
Maybe this is because of all the positive comments they are getting. Or maybe its because of the care and dedicated time the people that posted it put into it.
In my opinion I think its great to have the opportunity to check it out as I was not able to attend the actual event.
Meat is hitting all the talk shows in North America right now. My bet is it has more to do with Brave and Crazy then Las Vegas. I think hes doing a great job of reminding his fans that he is active in Las Vegas but also that something new is coming out.
This is top notch promotion and I'm glad to see it.
As I said the whole music business keeps changing and whether Meat chooses to go down this avenue of releasing all or just certain concerts, that is totally up to him.
But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the concept

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Well I notice that redpony has left the last at bat youtube videos alone.

I think you will find that he removed more than he left .. many, many more.

Maybe it's because he checks them out and is not happy to leave all the ones of poor quality on there? Imo these DO detract.

My bet is that this promotional tour has most likely been arranged by the PR company acting for SPI Entertainment. Of course it has benefits for Meat as a performer, but his emphasis is imo on the residency rather than an album to be released next year.

As I said the whole music business keeps changing and whether Meat chooses to go down this avenue of releasing all or just certain concerts, that is totally up to him.

Indeed. However, I can only refer you back to what I said about releasing soundboards of previous concerts, and as Meat has said over and over again that he will not tour again but just do residencies, and to date these are through SPI Entertainment who imo will not be releasing anything except just possibly a DVD at some time, I think continually pointing out what other touring artists are doing, is unlikely to change what Meat does .. and that such interesting discussions on what others do and how the music business is changing are more pertinent to another forum .. even if Meat is less likely to read them.

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Because we're on a Meat Loaf forum, discussing Meat Loaf? Actually, I just wanted to see if you'd bite, but you didn't. I'd have to agree on the Vince Neil issue, though.

Actually I think we started with Springsteen and how it may or may not ever involve Meat Loaf. Meat's shows are always different and his voice changes (uh, I mean "matures"). I just wish whoever owns "The History of Meat Loaf Live" would remaster and release the whole thing on DVD because it blows away the official DVD's by light years.
I really was thinking about Vince Neil because I had just read about his retirement tour and was amused by the idea because the audience sings as much as he does. I think Meat even mentioned it in an interview. Vince often pulls internet videos because if you can catch them before he does IMO he sounds pretty far gone vocally. I would go see them only because Alice Cooper is opening, but between the ticket price and having a legend like Alice open for Neil is a bit much for me.
Some of this could apply to Meat 'tis true but I had just read about the Crue and had them on my mind at the time.

[Evil One]

A) I'd have thought Vince Neil should be opening for Alice Cooper

and

B) I'm pretty sure Meat's said that MTV aren't prepared to pay him an appropriate amount of money to release The History Of Meat Loaf Live. Or Meat's asking for too much, depending on which way you want to look at it.

[AndrewG]

A few things spring to mind. Just random thoughts....

1. A cool idea but maybe a bit late in the date for both Springsteen and Meat
2. When I first looked at the Bruce live shows site I could only see the USB wristband at £25. I thought that was for one show. It seemed too steep to me. I see the full shows are far cheaper priced now with a slightly more expensive loseless one available as well. Nice one. I think for the money it's worth it to get a few I would attend if he tours the UK again this summer or next year which is probably more likely.
3. Meat never altered his setlists that much. I'm not sure I'd want multiple shows. Having said that I'd definitely would have had O2 and Manchester from last year if this option was available at those types of prices.
4. Meat to me never seems to have looked back at the stuff he has done as much as Springsteen always has. Perhaps it has something to do with not being the writer of most of the songs. Meat seems more interested in other things to me; acting etc. and yes you could say even coming on this board to be part of the community can be considered another form of entertainment he has given us. Or at least some more info at times. Interacting with Springsteen has always seemed off limits to me even though he plays the down the earth guy well. It's probably the number of fans that's the issue there. In either case both artists have done things differently and the older I get I don't care so much that they are not alike it's actually more interesting I think.
5. The only thing that always worries me when you give fans everything they want they either want more or get bored with what they get. Give them an audio recording; they want a DVD. Give them a DVD; they want a better edited DVD. Give them a better edited DVD; they want a Blu Ray. Give them a Blu Ray.... etc...

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

3. Meat never altered his setlists that much. I'm not sure I'd want multiple shows. Having said that I'd definitely would have had O2 and Manchester from last year if this option was available at those types of prices.

IF Meat went down the soundboard route, I'd rather it be done like the Casa De Carne CD, with the best version of each song selected otherwise we could get a show with the best Bat Out Of Hell and a crappy Dead Ringer. As long as all the songs sound roughly the same, does it really matter where they came from?

Originally Posted by AndrewG

4. Meat to me never seems to have looked back at the stuff he has done.

Meat always strikes me as perpetually looking forward and having a 'when something is done, it's done' attitude. That's why when he retires, I think he'll start digging through his collection. He's just been too preoccupied with other projects.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Give them a DVD; they want a better edited DVD.

I don't think it's wrong to expect a polished product in exchange for my hard-earned money.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

A few things spring to mind. Just random thoughts....
...............
3. Meat never altered his setlists that much. I'm not sure I'd want multiple shows. Having said that I'd definitely would have had O2 and Manchester from last year if this option was available at those types of prices.
4. Meat to me never seems to have looked back at the stuff he has done as much as Springsteen always has. Perhaps it has something to do with not being the writer of most of the songs. Meat seems more interested in other things to me; acting etc.

Interesting points Andrew. Meat doesn't write most of the songs he sings, although I think his contribution is sometimes undervalued. But I think it's more than Meat being interested in acting .. he sees himself as an actor rather than a singer, and as far as his shows are concerned is lead actor and show designer/director. One reason his set lists vary little on any tour has been the design of a show rather than a setlist of songs. Meat designs and mounts a theatrical production rather than a concert .. lighting, film, sets, positions, movement on stage is all carefully choreographed. Perhaps this goes some way too towards explaining his general aversion to bootlegs, his reluctance to release board tapes. I doubt the lead or director of any stage musical would favour either. Meat's shows are more than the sound; they are pieces of theatrical design. A sound board tape would not capture the whole, nor do most bootlegs.

And yes, Meat is constantly looking forward. His lives in the moment when he's performing .. off stage he is constantly looking for ways to make a current production better, tighter, more impactful .. and always moving forward because he has new visions he wants to bring to life on stage.

5. The only thing that always worries me when you give fans everything they want they either want more or get bored with what they get. Give them an audio recording; they want a DVD. Give them a DVD; they want a better edited DVD. Give them a better edited DVD; they want a Blu Ray. Give them a Blu Ray.... etc...

I agree.

Evil said when Meat retires "I think he'll start digging through his collection. He's just been too preoccupied with other projects." Not sure I agree with this. Yes. he's always pre-occupied with improving and new projects, but I don't see Meat taking to retirement. He is an actor first and foremost .. if he retires from stage performances I think his focus will move forward still ... to film (which he loves) and TV. He's a man of creative vision and drive imo, not a digger through of the past. I think that's what fuels his energy and enthusiasm, his zest and passion ... not thumbing through the past. He still has so much he wants to do