Choose what you believe !!

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

YOU WERE VERY NASTY TO ME ON THE DUTCH FORUM !! You were not alone .
Sorry, son .. What all of you wrote about a certain subject , in respect with me and calling me ~~~~~~~ .. Told me what you really thought about me , I was found Guilty and Hung without a Trial . You choose to believe what you wanted to believe . People who do that are not real people . I am going to say one thing do you really believe that after 20 years of working with Patti , That I woke up one morning and said I think I will fire her with an e-mail !! GIVE ME A BREAK !! HOW STUPID DOES THAT SOUND !!
M

So I went to the dutch forum to see for myself. Meat is right. Very nasty stuff. Why are they so intent on tearing the guy down?
Whatever decisions the man makes are his and his alone. I don't really understand why they get so picked apart.
I thought fans supported their favourite artist and talked about the music.
Not the rest of this stuff that really is no ones business

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

So I went to the dutch forum to see for myself. Meat is right. Very nasty stuff. Why are they so intent on tearing the guy down?
Whatever decisions the man makes are his and his alone. I don't really understand why they get so picked apart.
I thought fans supported their favourite artist and talked about the music.
Not the rest of this stuff that really is no ones business

Yes .. exactly !!

[Fire Ball]

There could be !! LOL
M

Originally Posted by duke knooby

Great news about you and jim, and the new record, does that mean there's a possibility to squeeze a banjo solo into the new album?

Nothin rocks more than a banjo solo lol

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

There could be !! LOL
M

On another note .. I know you won't be touring any more. But is there a chance you'll be doing a promo show
or two on the East Coast in the US after the new CD is released ?

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

So I went to the dutch forum to see for myself. Meat is right. Very nasty stuff. Why are they so intent on tearing the guy down?
Whatever decisions the man makes are his and his alone. I don't really understand why they get so picked apart.
I thought fans supported their favourite artist and talked about the music.
Not the rest of this stuff that really is no ones business

I agree. As far as his character and his business decisions are concerned, they do not know his character, nor what went into any business decision, which as you say are none of our business

As far as tearing his performances apart is concerned, perhaps these are people who see Meat just as a voice?

If so they are wrong in my view. Meat designs a night of musical theatre .. and that's what you get. Every single aspect of the show is planned down to the last and final detail .. stage positions, acting, lighting, screen images etc. It's what makes his shows unique, what has made me follow him for 36 years. When I go to his shows I am going for more than hearing him sing songs from an album live .. I am going for the whole spectacular package he puts together, because the whole is so much greater than the simple sum of the parts. The timing is meticulous, the lighting effects perfect .. every move is choreographed and orchestrated to add maximum impact, every sequence on the screen designed to enhance the lines of every song.

Just to see the images on the screen, to see how perfectly each piece meshes with a line or a few words of a song, and how the lighting varies .. it is superb. At a first show on a tour I will just take in the whole .. at subsequent shows I see how carefully everything works together and realise just WHY the show is so fantastic. One doesn't have to actually notice this at the front of one's consciousness to be swept away by the total delivery .. you might miss seeing what he puts into every minute of his time on stage, it may be subliminal, pass you by .. but I think you'd notice it's absence in some way .. the show would seem not to be quite what you have come to expect. Talk to anybody involved in the staging of a Meat Loaf show .. they will say the same. His show is all of him, all of his creative thinking and planning .. it starts way before he even begins rehearsals. It may culminate in him giving every ounce of energy he has when delivering it .. but the hard work started way before that.

That is what he gives you. He does not, and never will, simply come on stage and deliver a number of songs. He is creator, choreographer, producer, director and deliverer of a night of entertainment, and that night contains a number of carefully planned and executed mini-plays. Both Meat and Jim have their roots in musical theatre. If Jim is more than a composer .. one needs to bear in mind also that Meat is more than a voice.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Wrote very nasty things about me on the dutch forum !! I have no more time to spend on 2 faced people like you !! Did you very think about being a real honest human !! I tell you what, I am and always have been , oh yes I lose my temper . But I am never 2 faced !
M

I see your Dutch is as bad as your temper.

Did it ever occur to you that some of the Dutch nuances get lost in google translator (or who- or whatever you use to translate those posts)?

Anyway I'll try to continue this by PM.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by Vickip

Yes .. exactly !!

Funny... Never knew so many people here spoke Dutch that well

Dan kenne we toch lekkur innut Nederlands ouwehoere

[nikox1]

I don't know what went on or what was said on the Dutch forums, but it appears maybe some people were caught talking shit!!! So if they were? Take it on the chin and move on. It's like the wife comes to the husbands office - and walks in and catches her husband with he's trousers down and the secretary's knickers around her ankles. Oh hi dear' we are looking for my pen!!!!!

[Adje]

LMAO

It's nothing like that, actually. On the Dutch forum people are free to speak their mind and say what they trully feel without having to defend themselves for 400 posts.

That not everything is positive is only normal. But there is a huge amount of respect and love for Meat over there.

This forum is also great. Compare it with sports. You can tell your mates in the bar that Manchester United plays terrible. Maybe one other guy at the bar disagrees. If you say it out loud in the stadium between the fanatic United suporters, there is a big chance more of them want to punch you in the face. Perhaps deep down they agree but they are too fanatic (obsessed if you will) to have an open mind. Yet it's one of the best places to be in a stadium. Where the fanatics are cheering.

The Dutch forum is more like that bar. Relaxed, open minded and easier to start a conversation that is not always positive but with equal respect for each other.

Here it feels more like a stadium where some have lost all sense of reality and react like a bull on a red hankerchief when they hear something they disagree with.

As I said, I like both places. The stadium with the fanatics but also with the hottest news etc. And I like to relax in the bar, where things are more relaxed and open.

Originally Posted by nikox1

I don't know what went on or what was said on the Dutch forums, but it appears maybe some people were caught talking shit!!! So if they were? Take it on the chin and move on. It's like the wife comes to the husbands office - and walks in and catches her husband with he's trousers down and the secretary's knickers around her ankles. Oh hi dear' we are looking for my pen!!!!!

[nikox1]

Free speach is of course a given right - provided it is filled with fact and not fiction. I agree sometimes emotions run riot around here, but I find sometimes the crap people want to talk about has only one out come - upsetting the ARTIST. I mean why is the patti thing still being dragged out? It's done with, she was a member for a long time, very talented, and I've heard from people who have met her she is a very genuine person. But at the end if the day I buy albums with MEAT LOAF on them. Back in 2006 it was the same with the Bat 3 stuff, alot of rumours etc etc, a few years later and look at Meat and Jim now?? People fall out all the time, but make up twice as quickly. That's life. If a singer tweaks a few notes here and there = who cares? ,, for me personally I would love to see how it all comes together, it would be amazing to watch. If Meat said I could go the studio one day to watch, I would be on a plane in less than an hour lol,, I posted before - I support the singer Meat Loaf, I am a fan, I don't expect him to be my friend, I don't ask anything of him, only keep making the music!! I try not to get involved in he's personal space, I don't care what he had for breakfast, who he fought with yesterday. I'm sorry for rambling on, I just don't have the words to make it sound better, but I think I have covered the main things? Ps- Manchester United wouldn't know what real fans are, cough cough - Liverpool fan

[JaysScout]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Wrote very nasty things about me on the dutch forum !! I have no more time to spend on 2 faced people like you !! Did you very think about being a real honest human !! I tell you what, I am and always have been , oh yes I lose my temper . But I am never 2 faced !
M

You can like his voice, you can hate his voice. You can like his show, you can hate his show. You can like his posts, you can hate his posts.

Two things to never forget or question:

He is 100% honest!
He gives 100% to EVERYTHING he does!

That's all you need to know.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by Adje

LMAO

It's nothing like that, actually. On the Dutch forum people are free to speak their mind and say what they trully feel without having to defend themselves for 400 posts.

That not everything is positive is only normal. But there is a huge amount of respect and love for Meat over there.

This forum is also great. Compare it with sports. You can tell your mates in the bar that Manchester United plays terrible. Maybe one other guy at the bar disagrees. If you say it out loud in the stadium between the fanatic United suporters, there is a big chance more of them want to punch you in the face. Perhaps deep down they agree but they are too fanatic (obsessed if you will) to have an open mind. Yet it's one of the best places to be in a stadium. Where the fanatics are cheering.

The Dutch forum is more like that bar. Relaxed, open minded and easier to start a conversation that is not always positive but with equal respect for each other.

Here it feels more like a stadium where some have lost all sense of reality and react like a bull on a red hankerchief when they hear something they disagree with.

As I said, I like both places. The stadium with the fanatics but also with the hottest news etc. And I like to relax in the bar, where things are more relaxed and open.

I get what your saying and I can appreciate the limitations of the google translator. However, there were a lot of disrespectful posts that anyone would take offense to. There was a lot of taking information and coming up with more conjecture than truth.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by nikox1

Free speach is of course a given right - provided it is filled with fact and not fiction. I agree sometimes emotions run riot around here, but I find sometimes the crap people want to talk about has only one out come - upsetting the ARTIST.

Ps- Manchester United wouldn't know what real fans are, cough cough - Liverpool fan

That's a difference from the Dutch board. Free speech there is meaning being granted to state your opinion. It doesn't have to do anything with facts. It's making conversation about your true feelings according a subject or matter.

Unfortunately over here it's immediately considered as a personal attack. I think partial because of the fanatics over here are too often overreacting. Meat's temper issues don't help either. I think Andrew's post is a great example.

What he said has triggered Meat Loaf beyond reason while what he said wasn't all that bad. He stated his true feelings about an album and shared his thoughts. Nobody on the Dutch board took offense but Meat took that message here with loud bombastic anger and BOOM! It exploded.

Another example is the post directed to me. Meat talked complete nonsense. I would have taken his argument with Evil to the Dutch board while my last post there was a week before they started arguing.
Someone must have wrongly informed Meat and he apologised to me through mail (Now he seems upset about something else btw). Still it was a bogus reaction and before I could reply someone else placed her suport to him. It just shows some people are blind in their suport, and reason has no place in their mind.

So the analogy with football and a bar isn't too far off. Although I have no clue about ManUnited fans. I know Liverpool bought the best striker in the World when they took Suarez from my favorite team, Ajax (and now that is a bloody fact )

[Adje]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

I get what your saying and I can appreciate the limitations of the google translator. However, there were a lot of disrespectful posts that anyone would take offense to.

Funny how only, non speaking Dutch on a complete different board are the only ones that took offense. Makes you think though....

United fans hear something negative was said about their club in a bar, walking in on the person in the stadium and start shouting YOU TALK SHIT ABOUT OUR TEAM. THAT BAR IS FILLED WITH HATRED TO OUR TEAM!

No, we talk openly in that bar because we know there are fanatics in the stadium that get agressive when they hear it.

If you don't like what we talk about, stay out of our bar. Simple

[nikox1]

1. People should be careful what they say
2. There is opinion, and then there is gossip
3. An open and honest conversation is good, as long as speculation does not run wild, and do note that if a person reads something that is not true? They will defend their corner
4. I also agree, artist or not, nobody should be told to f€€k off and etc etc,,
5. We all love Meats music, that is where it should start and end, if he fires or hires or dresses band members as clowns, in my opinion it's not my bizzness.
6. It's great that Meat comes on here, not many artists get so involved with there fans, hey maybe that's why he is so open to attack?
7. It's a pity that the controversial comments only ever get a response? As so many times u see good and fair questions go unanswered, but hey u can't win them all.
8. There's alot more important things going on in people's lives and in this world to be worrying about.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by nikox1

5. We all love Meats music, that is where it should start and end, if he fires or hires or dresses band members as clowns, in my opinion it's not my bizzness.
6. It's great that Meat comes on here, not many artists get so involved with there fans, hey maybe that's why he is so open to attack?
7. It's a pity that the controversial comments only ever get a response? As so many times u see good and fair questions go unanswered, but hey u can't win them all.

Good post.
some comments with the quoted points.

5 We all love most of his music and discuss what we love or don't like. The band is part of the performance that I'm paying to see. So for me the band is important. As I once explained with the Bon Jovi - Ricky Samboa situation.
Besides I don't want to go to a Meat Loaf concert where the band is dressed up as clowns and play carnival music. Luckily I can discuss that with other members. So, yes I do consider it business that I shlould be able to discuss with other fans.

6. It is great but Meat himself started this by taking posts from a complete different place and start argueing about them here. You can't blame us for responding.

7 Absolutely true. And there are a lot of positive messages both here as on the Dutch board to shine your light on.


You never commented on the Suarez fact though

[Guy]

Did someone mention a bar?
:0)

[GDW]

Originally Posted by Guy

Did someone mention a bar?
:0)

Yeah! The sports bar Meat Loaf is opening in Texas.

[nikox1]

Suarez is the best striker in the world!! Thank u Ajax lol

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by nikox1

* People should be careful what they say
* There is opinion, and then there is gossip
* An open and honest conversation is good, as long as speculation does not run wild, and do note that if a person reads something that is not true? They will defend their corner
* We all love Meats music, that is where it should start and end, if he fires or hires or dresses band members as clowns, in my opinion it's not my bizzness.
*It's great that Meat comes on here, not many artists get so involved with there fans, hey maybe that's why he is so open to attack?

Agree with these wholeheartedly. Considering the feelings of others when you post about them is simply reasonable. No-one is likely to react favourably if they see themselves the subject of unfair speculation or untruths, particularly if they are in a position where to end speculation could perhaps reflect poorly on someone else, and thus be unprofessional. Meat's business decisions are as you say, his business. I have not seen him dress his band members as clowns Yes, it IS great that Meat comes here, gives us news, often answers questions. It does leave him open to attack, whether to get his attention or not. To me it's understandable when he reacts.

Originally Posted by Adje

It is great but Meat himself started this by taking posts from a complete different place and start argueing about them here. You can't blame us for responding.

Cuts both ways. If you take things Meat says here when he's hurt and angry, or disappointed, things he said to people in this forum, and post them on another forum which is open to be read by any fan (which you do) with comments some might regard as mocking, and he is certainly likely to? I don't blame him for responding if he sees that. It seems to me less than fair if you do.

[nikox1]

So what are the Jim songs being used? Pm,s flying everywhere I hear? C,mon now spill the beans

[Adje]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Cuts both ways. If you take things Meat says here when he's hurt and angry, or disappointed, things he said to people in this forum, and post them on another forum which is open to be read by any fan (which you do) with comments some might regard as mocking, and he is certainly likely to? I don't blame him for responding if he sees that. It seems to me less than fair if you do.

Ahh you misunderstood. I don't mind or care. It's an open board and people should come in as they please.

The bar/stadium example, again, fits perfectly.

Major difference is I actually understand English. Meat doesn't understand a Dutch word, obviously. Showing his rant at me about something that actually never happened. Then again you already replied in favor of Meat without knowing the facts. So I don't think you're that open minded at all

But then again, often people come into a bar not knowing what the hell they are doing there

[melon]

I swear someone just mentioned a bar again

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Adje

Then again you already replied in favor of Meat without knowing the facts. So I don't think you're that open minded at all

That is your assumption.

I agreed with Meat's comment about rude and hurtful comments. I stand by that. He was not, in my opinion, off the mark there.

I see myself mocked there by name? I really don't care. But it is not my name at the top of that forum. I think it is different for Meat, whose name IS at the top.

I believe that to take things Meat says here when he's hurt and angry, or disappointed, things he said to people in this forum, and post them on another forum which is open to be read by any fan (which you do) with comments some might regard as mocking, is at best poor netiquette. If the owner and moderators here think it is not, that is for them. But it is, and will remain, my perspective. These are not two public bars, but two forums which each bear his name. On this we fundamentally disagree, so there is no use in continuing to discuss it.

[evil nickname]

Whatever happened to that "whatever happens on another website stays on that other website" rule?