Meat Loaf Endorses Mitt Romney For POTUS

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Neither of those are points I have made.

I think you have

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Had Meat merely used his own vote rather than attempting to use his fame to try to influence others political decisions, this discussion wouldn't exist.

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Meat basically using his fanbase and his fame to try to tell people how to vote makes me respect him less,

And, either you don't like Romney, or you meant this in the best way possible..............

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

There's a vast difference between telling you what pants to wear and telling you who to vote for. Whichever brand of boxers Beckham decides to promote isn't ultimately going to affect people's right to marry or retain autonomy over their body.

So, again, is your main problem that Meat (along with other celebs) endorce a candidate, or is the problem with who Meat is endorcing?

[Tomjoad]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I don't see why it's that different to a gig. Paul got a kick out of being on the bus and posted a photo, Dave Luther posted some pictures and basically said it was an honour to be within feet of a Presidential candidate even if as a liberal he didn't support him, and that everybody was just having fun with it.

There's a world of difference in my opinion. That was not a fair or a carnival, that was a political rally. If one or two members of the band say "cool!" and post a picture, doesn't mean all of them were comfortable. This has to be clear: if you perform on a stage at a rally, you are perceived as a supporter of that candidate. Did Meat ask them one by one if they wanted to go? I hope so.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Tomjoad

There's a world of difference in my opinion. That was not a fair or a carnival, that was a political rally. If one or two members of the band say "cool!" and post a picture, doesn't mean all of them were comfortable. This has to be clear: if you perform on a stage at a rally, you are perceived as a supporter of that candidate. Did Meat ask them one by one if they wanted to go? I hope so.

As i've said in a prior post, who was willing, who was not willing, how they were asked, it's all speculation.

Until Meat or any band member decides to enlighten us with the facts, let's not try proving any points using gueswork

[lorenzoduke]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I think you have

So, again, is your main problem that Meat (along with other celebs) endorce a candidate, or is the problem with who Meat is endorcing?

Nice try. In neither of those quotes you've painstakingly taken out of context do I ask how Meat could vote for Romney - indeed, I say 'if only he had just voted for him'.

I have also said I would feel the same regardless of who he was telling people to vote for. Apparently you chose to ignore that quote. What a surprise.

I do not like the idea of Meat Loaf using his fame to tell people who to vote for. It divides fans and it is something he has never done before.

I don't like the fact that he offered an unqualified endorsement, his first in 40 years, only to turn around the next day and say he disagrees with Romney on a number of key issues.

I also never ask why Meat feels he is in a position to use his celebrity for an endorsement. Meat is in that position, clearly. I simply said I don't think he should and that it will (and has) divide his fans.

I have also said I find it disrespectful to tell people to argue with their family and friends rather than respecting their own opinions. Once again, you ignore this, determined as you are to ignore everything I've said and push the agenda you've invented for me.

You seem to have some sort of desperation to tell me what I think rather than listening to what I have said. I've explained my points clearly and concisely - everyone but you seems to have understood them. I can't be bothered wasting further effort explaining.

[Sarge]

I'd like to thank lorenzoduke for his posts. (Since I refrain from clicking "like" or "dislike" buttons, I have to do it this way.)

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Tomjoad

There's a world of difference in my opinion. That was not a fair or a carnival, that was a political rally. If one or two members of the band say "cool!" and post a picture, doesn't mean all of them were comfortable. This has to be clear: if you perform on a stage at a rally, you are perceived as a supporter of that candidate. Did Meat ask them one by one if they wanted to go? I hope so.

Were I a member of a backing band I would not see it that way. That's my view. You are entitled to yours, as are they to theirs. I have merely posted what two band members have made public via the net. I am not speculating as to how each felt or if each was asked .. I agree with Mouse. If it is an issue for you, you could ask them individually. They are all on FB.

[Tomjoad]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Were I a member of a backing band I would not see it that way. That's my view. You are entitled to yours, as are they to theirs. I have merely posted what two band members have made public via the net. I am not speculating as to how each felt or if each was asked .. I agree with Mouse. If it is an issue for you, you could ask them individually. They are all on FB.

Not my intention to speculate. My point is that nobody should be put in a sticky situation like that. That's all.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Tomjoad

Not my intention to speculate. My point is that nobody should be put in a sticky situation like that. That's all.

No, I said I wasn't speculating as to how each felt or was asked.

Some might say that to imply anyone was put in a sticky situation, as far as they were concerned, is speculation

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

How do you know this for sure? Do you have some statistics to back this up? You only have to look at the reactions of some of the hard core fans here to see that some people ARE disappointed. A lesser hard core fan may indeed throw the records out or not play or buy them anymore or not go to his gigs anymore. I certainly think that this is a possibility because of this association. If Romney wins I think that that is even more likely than if he loses.

Hence my words "I'm betting" and "a lot" as opposed to "I'm certain" and "all"

[MarkS]

To the people who keep harping on about the band members, no one held a gun to anyone's head and said "do this or die." They are all f**king adults, and they made the decision on their own to attend. Do they support Romney, who the hell knows, we won't know unless they come here and tell us one way or the other.

A job is a job, but I would imagine that anyone who didn't want to be involved did not have to be if they didn't want to.

[Sarge]

A question that's not related to political controversy: How come videos of Meat Loaf singing America The Beautiful at the rally are removed from YouTube due to copyright claims by Red Pony Tours? What exactly does Meat Loaf hold the copyright to in this case?

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Nice try.

Try?

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

In neither of those quotes you've painstakingly taken out of context do I ask how Meat could vote for Romney - indeed, I say 'if only he had just voted for him'.

Taken out of context?
I've read what you said, and posted the relevant parts to what I was asking.

You're obvious dislike for Romney is why I asked for clarification on weather it was the crandidate or or the endorcement itself that you didn't like.

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

I have also said I would feel the same regardless of who he was telling people to vote for. Apparently you chose to ignore that quote. What a surprise.

Sorry, I must have overlooked that. No sarcasm required, I only asked you for a clarification.

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

I do not like the idea of Meat Loaf using his fame to tell people who to vote for. It divides fans and it is something he has never done before.

I do not like the idea of Meat Loaf using his fame to tell people who to vote for. It divides fans and it is something he has never done before.

I don't like the fact that he offered an unqualified endorsement, his first in 40 years, only to turn around the next day and say he disagrees with Romney on a number of key issues.

Then it's the endorcement you have a problem with.
But I asked you weather it was the cadidate or the endorcement you didn't like, and you said you had not made either point.

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

I also never ask why Meat feels he is in a position to use his celebrity for an endorsement. Meat is in that position, clearly. I simply said I don't think he should and that it will (and has) divide his fans.

So again, it's the endorcement itself you have the problem with, not the fact it was Romney endorced. This is all I asked you.

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

I have also said I find it disrespectful to tell people to argue with their family and friends rather than respecting their own opinions.

Fair enough.
I don't think it's unusual for someone talking to a political crowd to urge them to fight their corner.
I also think it's normal that the crowd needs no telling. It's normal that the celebrity speaker will have pretty much 0 effect on the commitment to those he speaks too.

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Once again, you ignore this, determined as you are to ignore everything I've said and push the agenda you've invented for me.

I've asked you what your biggest issue was, and asked you to clarify, even when you've said the point you've made over and over is a point you've never made.

How can I invent an agenda for you when I have no idea what point you are trying to make?

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

You seem to have some sort of desperation to tell me what I think rather than listening to what I have said. I've explained my points clearly and concisely -

And then gone back to say that you weren't saying it

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

I can't be bothered wasting further effort explaining.

I'd say we'll agree to disagree, but I think we actually agree. It's hard to say because you said you weren't making the point I was agreeing with.

I'll settle for agreeing to disagree

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Tomjoad

Not my intention to speculate. My point is that nobody should be put in a sticky situation like that. That's all.

I agree 100%
My point is we don't know if there was any sticky situation.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sarge

A question that's not related to political controversy: How come videos of Meat Loaf singing America The Beautiful at the rally are removed from YouTube due to copyright claims by Red Pony Tours? What exactly does Meat Loaf hold the copyright to in this case?

A good point
It's strange that having given such an endorcement Meat wouldn't want anybody to see it

You could argue that he's got some sort of claim over it was his live peformance, but I personally think it's more to do with the poor quality of the performance.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Sarge

What exactly does Meat Loaf hold the copyright to in this case?

I would imagine his performance. Videos of an artist's performance taken by individuals in any public venue without specific permission are not legal, nor are those ripped from news channels. That would be my understanding, but Meat would be the person to ask for a definite answer. You could PM him.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Sarge

A question that's not related to political controversy: How come videos of Meat Loaf singing America The Beautiful at the rally are removed from YouTube due to copyright claims by Red Pony Tours? What exactly does Meat Loaf hold the copyright to in this case?

I am assuming in many cases the words "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Red Pony Tours." actually mean "This video is no longer available because it sucked and I don't want anyone else to see it and I am using the copyright claim route to get it flipping removed from YouTube."

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

OK, how about............

"people of the mindset that they can project their own personal opinions onto their favourite celebrity are freaking nuts".

Is that better?

Ah, no. Not really. If you have the right to say that about them here, then likewise anyone here has the right to call behavior they may deem as 'freaking nuts', well, just that. The difference is: you get away with it. This I'm not that good with.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by CarylB

For accuracy, they have not been deleted. Some of the more sexually graphic ones will probably have been removed by Facebook because they have been reported.

However, please let's not derail the thread. It was great that Meat gave such a fantastic show again, and Kathy's review is lovely to read. Thank you again Kathy

Caryl

the last time I had checked Meat's Facebook page almost ANY post that had to do with supporting Obama, being disappointed in Meat's choice to endorse Romney or anything that could be taken as anti Romney, even if it had been expresed with thoughtfulness and respect has been deleted. So he gets to shove his opinion in our face, yet fans (and others) don't get to voice their opinion even when it is done in a respectful manner? HIs speech to endorse Romney was much more than a simple endorsement saying, yeah I happen to support this man. It was preaching and telling others how to do, how to vote. The way he is handling things on his FB page to me comes across as cowardly as well as hypocritcal and even borders on propoganda. Just because he deletes the criticism & disappoinment of others, it doesn't mean it isn't still there. And he is only causing further disappointment.
As Julie said, if you can't stand the heat say out of the kitchen.
He has given me one more reason to question his character and integrity with this endorsement and how he has handled the aftermath.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I am assuming in many cases the words "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Red Pony Tours." actually mean "This video is no longer available because it sucked and I don't want anyone else to see it and I am using the copyright claim route to get it flipping removed from YouTube."

So while we're on the subject: maybe a softer vocal delivery might help these days? It's a criticism if you like, but it's constructive! I think we all want Meat to come off well at these events.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Ah, no. Not really. If you have the right to say that about them here, then likewise anyone here has the right to call behavior they may deem as 'freaking nuts', well, just that. The difference is: you get away with it. This I'm not that good with.

OK, how about, instead of freaking nuts, unrealistic and possessive?

[MarkS]

I must have missed the "respectful" expression of opinion on Facebook. Most of what I saw was riddled with bad language and insults. Quickest solution, get rid of it all.

I also find it odd for someone who for years has been so far up Meat's ass that she can taste his his food to suddenly turn on him over politics

If you make your musical listening decisions based on an artists political leanings then you are an idiot.

I don't support Romney, but I'm not going to turn on meat because of it. I'm not going to go out and burn Springsteen albums just because he supports Obama. People need to get a ~~~~ing grip

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

So while we're on the subject: maybe a softer vocal delivery might help these days? It's a criticism if you like, but it's constructive! I think we all want Meat to come off well at these events.

I agree. The problem with Meat going over the top whilst his voice was tired and he was unable to control it made the vocal into some of the most awful singing I've ever heard. This may sound mean but I am being brutally honest. Ironically he has also delivered the best vocals I've ever heard in my life.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by MarkS

I don't support Romney, but I'm not going to turn on meat because of it. I'm not going to go out and burn Springsteen albums just because he supports Obama. People need to get a ~~~~ing grip

You might not, but other people do (or say they do). The same hateful crap has been spread over the internet about Bruce for years. So much for the "Second Coming".

[MarkS]

As a voting American, this sums many of my thoughts on our candidates and this election

From Richard Marx on Twitter

@richardmarx: For me, this election is like deciding whether I'd prefer a Nike or an Adidas to kick me square in the nuts.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by BostonAngel

the last time I had checked Meat's Facebook page almost ANY post that had to do with supporting Obama, being disappointed in Meat's choice to endorse Romney or anything that could be taken as anti Romney, even if it had been expresed with thoughtfulness and respect has been deleted. So he gets to shove his opinion in our face, yet fans (and others) don't get to voice their opinion even when it is done in a respectful manner? HIs speech to endorse Romney was much more than a simple endorsement saying, yeah I happen to support this man. It was preaching and telling others how to do, how to vote. The way he is handling things on his FB page to me comes across as cowardly as well as hypocritcal and even borders on propoganda. Just because he deletes the criticism & disappoinment of others, it doesn't mean it isn't still there. And he is only causing further disappointment.
As Julie said, if you can't stand the heat say out of the kitchen.
He has given me one more reason to question his character and integrity with this endorsement and how he has handled the aftermath.

I agree, to an extent.
Any celeb sticking their head above the parapet can expect to be shot at, but this wasn't a smattering of rifle fire, some of it was fraking 24 pounder artillery

My post, although supportive of Meat, was not pro Romney, and it's still there. I'll post it here for the sake of example............

Het Meat.
I see you are taking a lot of flak for backing Mitt Romney.
Just wanted to say in the face of all this hostility thatI don't agree with your choice of candidate, but I don't have to.
Especially as I don't live in the US lol.
You have your views, and the right to express them (even if it means putting a target on your back).

Meat Loaf, to me, is a kick ass singer who brings the best. I don't need to embrace your politics to enjoy your music, and it baffles me that people are saying they do not wish to be your fans anymore because of who you back.
That's like backing a football team because of the breed of the managers dog :S
Rock on Meat, and keep bringing the best

While looking for the post I also came across one that's still up calling Meat "mittloaf" (and not in a good way).
So not every post has been deleted that doesn't show support for Romney, but no doubt some have.

The most vile comments have no doubt been deleted, but that's only right.

If respectful comments have been taken down, i'd have to see the content myself to judge weather it was right (in my oppinion) to take them down or not.

End of the day, if you're going to speak up you must accept others will reply in disagreement.

I personally think that to make a political endorcement was a mistake, and no good come of it for Meat or his fans. But i'm not going to hold it agaist him. The endorcement, or who it's in favour of. I have a minimal opinion on Meat's ability to influence people in these matters and treat it with equally little importance.