Ebay dispute

**Monstro** · 14 Oct 2010, 23:09

Bought this today http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

You should hear the excuse the guy's given me for refunding my money, complete bull. I feel a dispute coming on

AndrewG · 14 Oct 2010, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monstro

You should hear the excuse the guy's given me for refunding my money, complete bull. I feel a dispute coming on

Hmmm. Too good to be true, but that's what the reserve is for. Indeed if you paid with Paypal, dispute it. What are the chances of a relisting WITH a reserve in the next few days?

meatfanforlife · 14 Oct 2010, 23:16

So, I take it he wouldn't give you the item for that price? HIS fault he didnt put reserve...what a tit

duke knooby · 15 Oct 2010, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatfanforlife

HIS fault he didnt put reserve...what a tit

im not familiar with the workings of ebay... so really shouldn't comment, but... had a contract been entered into? had money changed hands? is it a trade seller? would you send something for a 10th of its value?

its not unusal for large companies to make a mistake on their online websites... it is unusal for the potential customers to have their purchase honoured in those cases.. due to small print get out clauses... is ebay similar?

if you really need the camera... have you considered one of these??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-DSC-W370-...99189351053188

As the quantity was greater than 1, i'm gonna guess either a trade seller, seller of stolen goods, or a thief, but i could be completely wrong

alot of "we" in the returns process... sounds like a trader... and its an unusal model number, so gonna be select retailers i reckon... and a sony lens??? wtf...

meatfanforlife · 15 Oct 2010, 01:10

Aye, but if you dont put a reserve on the listing on ebay, it should be your loss, imo.

This is why I don't use ebay anymore... >.<

**allrevvedup** · 15 Oct 2010, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monstro

You should hear the excuse the guy's given me for refunding my money, complete bull. I feel a dispute coming on

make it an eBay dispute, I don't want you to be my first call at 9.30 tomorrow morning

either way it's one of these things that if it looks too good to be true it usually is.

duke knooby · 15 Oct 2010, 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatfanforlife

Aye, but if you dont put a reserve on the listing on ebay, it should be your loss, imo.

thats rather harsh... anyone can make a mistake

AndrewG · 15 Oct 2010, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

had money changed hands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monstro

You should hear the excuse the guy's given me for refunding my money, complete bull. I feel a dispute coming on

duke knooby · 15 Oct 2010, 01:39

my bet is no money changed hands... again, never dealt with paypal, so shouldnt comment

CarylB · 15 Oct 2010, 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

thats rather harsh... anyone can make a mistake

I don't know .. eBay are keen enough to point out when you bid you've entered into a legally binding contract and if you are the winning bidder you must pay. Cuts both ways imo. The seller has been registered for 2 years, has over 150 transactions, and should have sufficient experience to know that if there's a minimum you're prepared to let the item go for then you need to put a reserve on it. You can't withdraw an item from normal auctions after the hammer's gone down, and the same principles apply on eBay.

If your transaction has been completed via Paypal, the money has automatically gone into the seller's account, so the transaction is complete, and Michael has paid for the goods, the contract should be fulfilled.

My experiences on eBay are very good. I have nearly 1500 transactions, only let down by one seller, who eventually coughed up a refund .. and one experience where the seller sent the wrong items to two of us. The other buyer got what should have been sent to me and refused to return it (it was much higher value than the thing they'd bought) which was pretty tacky imo. But my seller refunded all I'd paid including the postage for returning the wrong item to him.

In this case imo it's seller beware, and Michael should get the item he won and paid for.

Caryl

duke knooby · 15 Oct 2010, 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

I don't know .. eBay are keen enough to point out when you bid you've entered into a legally binding contract and if you are the winning bidder you must pay. Cuts both ways imo. The seller has been registered for 2 years, has over 150 transactions, and should have sufficient experience to know that if there's a minimum you're prepared to let the item go for then you need to put a reserve on it. You can't withdraw an item from normal auctions after the hammer's gone down, and the same principles apply on eBay.

If your transaction has been completed via Paypal, the money has automatically gone into the seller's account, so the transaction is complete, and Michael has paid for the goods, the contract should be fulfilled.

My experiences on eBay are very good. I have nearly 1500 transactions, only let down by one seller, who eventually coughed up a refund .. and one experience where the seller sent the wrong items to two of us. The other buyer got what should have been sent to me and refused to return it (it was much higher value than the thing they'd bought) which was pretty tacky imo. But my seller refunded all I'd paid including the postage for returning the wrong item to him.

In this case imo it's seller beware, and Michael should get the item he won and paid for.

Caryl

nice one... like i said, ive had no dealings with ebay or paypal... was only throwing questions...

duke knooby · 15 Oct 2010, 02:16

(in fact, having neither an ebay account, or a paypal account, i really shouldda said nothin) however

a shop advertised price never used to be legally binding.. it was just an invitation to treat

Wario · 15 Oct 2010, 02:17

what item was it? a basket of soundboards?

meatfanforlife · 15 Oct 2010, 02:24

Camera, I believe.

AndrewG · 15 Oct 2010, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

what item was it? a basket of soundboards?

The original unheard 27 minute recording of Masculine. Nothing special.

CarylB · 15 Oct 2010, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

(in fact, having neither an ebay account, or a paypal account, i really shouldda said nothin)

Don't see why .. you were as you said just seeking information. There's plenty of bizarre opinions posted here as "fact" on a regular basis

.. and you posted your thoughts saying that you hadn't any live experience. You're right that shops can say they've wrongly priced an item .. invitation to treat law and all that. It's just that auctions are I think as binding on eBay as in general.

Of course the internet has some things peculiar to itself .. eg the right to cancel orders, even return goods for no reason but you've changed your mind. But remember when a company (Amazon?) put the wrong price on their Super Delux version of HCTB? I think I'm right in saying they honoured the orders placed when they advertised the wrong price.

Caryl

duke knooby · 15 Oct 2010, 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

Of course the internet has some things peculiar to itself .. eg the right to cancel orders, even return goods for no reason but you've changed your mind.

Caryl

that will be the distance selling regulations.. as you haven't been able to see/touch/experience the product (see argos)

and yes, amazon were very good to honour that one

(are amazon a retailer though)

duke knooby · 15 Oct 2010, 02:43

im reduced to wiki... which is possibly bullshit... yep, i'm that unfamiliar with auctions legalities...

If an auction is without reserve then whilst there is no contract of sale between the owner of the goods and the highest bidder (because the placing of goods in the auction is an invitation to treat) there is a collateral contract between the auctioneer and the highest bidder that the auction will be held without reserve (i.e., that the highest bid, however low, will be accepted).[9] The U.S. Uniform Commercial Code provides that in an auction without reserve the goods may not be withdrawn once they have been put up.[10]

CarylB · 15 Oct 2010, 04:12

Contrary to popular belief, a written contract isn't needed for obligations to exist in law. A contract can be formed simply by one party making an offer and the other party accepting it, providing that offer and acceptance are clearly communicated and understood, and that both parties are legally capable of making the promises. This is the basis for auctions in general, and on eBay the details of the agreed sale are clear and unambiguous, and in essence published. eBay as in accordance with their contract with the seller sends you a written communication confirming the sale and requesting payment, which forms your written contract. The bids are treats, and the highest treat is accepted, the auctioneer accepting it on the seller's behalf in accordance with the contract they have between them (because as a seller you enter into a contract with eBay when you list your goods).

However, once you make payment via Paypal the seller's account receives it, the contract is complete and has moved way beyond invitation to treat. I think sellers are on indefensible grounds at this point, and in attempting to refund your money they are in effect trying to cancel a completed contract.

Caryl

CarylB · 15 Oct 2010, 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monstro

You should hear the excuse the guy's given me for refunding my money, complete bull. I feel a dispute coming on

I thought you could refuse to accept a Paypal payment if you haven't raised an invoice? I'm sure you used to be able to, because I've had notifications in the past of moneys sent and had to take action to complete it.

Caryl

suzieq · 15 Oct 2010, 04:27

Does this thread qualify for the "take it up with the original person at the original place" rather than on this forum bit? Just a question so I know what I can or cannot bring to forum. Thanks.

**allrevvedup** · 15 Oct 2010, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monstro

Bought this today http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

You should hear the excuse the guy's given me for refunding my money, complete bull. I feel a dispute coming on

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Indeed if you paid with Paypal, dispute it. What are the chances of a relisting WITH a reserve in the next few days?

If the guy has issued the refund already then from a PayPal point of view there is nothing that can be done as we could have only placed the funds that the seller would have received on hold.

That seller should be able to relist it and depending on his status with eBay, ie he hasn't had any issues and pays his fees, there's a good chance he might get to relist it for free and I'm sure he won't make the same mistake again.

There's also a fair chance that if your account or address you were asking to send the item to was not verified (they would be able to see this in the transaction details) he may have looked at it and found that they were not protected because I doubt for a price like that they were going to send it by a trackable method which is what PayPal insist on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

If your transaction has been completed via Paypal, the money has automatically gone into the seller's account, so the transaction is complete, and Michael has paid for the goods, the contract should be fulfilled.

In this case imo it's seller beware, and Michael should get the item he won and paid for.

I agree and if a case can't be filed on this case, i'd still say he should contact eBay anyway to report the seller because it could result in further action being taken by them and if PayPal find that they have had a lot of cases filed against them, we'd take action against them as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

that will be the distance selling regulations...

Not something PayPal uphold in our terms and conditions but we always advise the customer that if they wanted to take it further based on that outside of us they can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

I thought you could refuse to accept a Paypal payment if you haven't raised an invoice? I'm sure you used to be able to, because I've had notifications in the past of moneys sent and had to take action to complete it.

the seller had the option to refuse the payment and even if they chose to accept it would have 60 days to issue it as a refund again.

Ok now i've got to go and explain the same sort of thing to many other customers for 10 hours today

**Monstro** · 20 Oct 2010, 00:32

"Michael, please know that as soon as a buyer wins an item, by being the
highest bidder in an auction or using Buy It Now, the buyer and seller
enter into a contract. The seller must sell the goods and the buyer must
pay for them.

The seller may not refuse to accept payment or fail to deliver an item
for which they have accepted payment. They may not send an item
different to that described or pictured in the listing.

For more information about our Seller Non-Performance policies, please
copy the following link into a new browse window:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policie...rformance.html

Having said that, we have investigated your report and I can confirm
that we have taken the appropriate action.

Privacy is a priority at eBay at all times so we're not able to share
the details of the actions we take. They can range from issuing the
seller an informational alert, a temporary suspension, an indefinite
suspension or terminating the member's account.

Bear in mind that not all of the actions we take are visible to other
members or evident immediately."

That's that then, nowt more can be done...........

**allrevvedup** · 20 Oct 2010, 00:43

standard eBay email, says a lot without saying anything at all.

duke knooby · 20 Oct 2010, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

says a lot without saying anything at all.

does suggest they treat there auctions as standard retail law though... which is good

14 Oct 2010, 23:09	#1
Monstro Promoted to Wario's spellchecker Join Date: 17.09.2005 Location: London Posts: 12,946	Ebay dispute Bought this today http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT You should hear the excuse the guy's given me for refunding my money, complete bull. I feel a dispute coming on Last edited by Monstro; 15 Oct 2010 at 02:03.

15 Oct 2010, 02:16	#12
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,882	(in fact, having neither an ebay account, or a paypal account, i really shouldda said nothin) however a shop advertised price never used to be legally binding.. it was just an invitation to treat Last edited by duke knooby; 15 Oct 2010 at 02:24.

14 Oct 2010, 23:16	#3
meatfanforlife Banned Join Date: 12.09.2010 Posts: 327	So, I take it he wouldn't give you the item for that price? HIS fault he didnt put reserve...what a tit

15 Oct 2010, 01:10	#5
meatfanforlife Banned Join Date: 12.09.2010 Posts: 327	Aye, but if you dont put a reserve on the listing on ebay, it should be your loss, imo. This is why I don't use ebay anymore... >.<

15 Oct 2010, 01:39	#9
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,882	my bet is no money changed hands... again, never dealt with paypal, so shouldnt comment

15 Oct 2010, 02:17	#13
Wario Monstro helps me spell things... Join Date: 05.01.2007 Location: Masculine, Pennsylvania Posts: 9,105	what item was it? a basket of soundboards?

15 Oct 2010, 02:24	#14
meatfanforlife Banned Join Date: 12.09.2010 Posts: 327	Camera, I believe.

15 Oct 2010, 02:43	#18
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,882	im reduced to wiki... which is possibly bullshit... yep, i'm that unfamiliar with auctions legalities... If an auction is without reserve then whilst there is no contract of sale between the owner of the goods and the highest bidder (because the placing of goods in the auction is an invitation to treat) there is a collateral contract between the auctioneer and the highest bidder that the auction will be held without reserve (i.e., that the highest bid, however low, will be accepted).[9] The U.S. Uniform Commercial Code provides that in an auction without reserve the goods may not be withdrawn once they have been put up.[10]

15 Oct 2010, 04:12	#19
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	Contrary to popular belief, a written contract isn't needed for obligations to exist in law. A contract can be formed simply by one party making an offer and the other party accepting it, providing that offer and acceptance are clearly communicated and understood, and that both parties are legally capable of making the promises. This is the basis for auctions in general, and on eBay the details of the agreed sale are clear and unambiguous, and in essence published. eBay as in accordance with their contract with the seller sends you a written communication confirming the sale and requesting payment, which forms your written contract. The bids are treats, and the highest treat is accepted, the auctioneer accepting it on the seller's behalf in accordance with the contract they have between them (because as a seller you enter into a contract with eBay when you list your goods). However, once you make payment via Paypal the seller's account receives it, the contract is complete and has moved way beyond invitation to treat. I think sellers are on indefensible grounds at this point, and in attempting to refund your money they are in effect trying to cancel a completed contract. Caryl

15 Oct 2010, 04:27	#21
suzieq Mega Loafer Join Date: 26.10.2008 Location: West Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 2,319	Does this thread qualify for the "take it up with the original person at the original place" rather than on this forum bit? Just a question so I know what I can or cannot bring to forum. Thanks.

20 Oct 2010, 00:32	#23
Monstro Promoted to Wario's spellchecker Join Date: 17.09.2005 Location: London Posts: 12,946	"Michael, please know that as soon as a buyer wins an item, by being the highest bidder in an auction or using Buy It Now, the buyer and seller enter into a contract. The seller must sell the goods and the buyer must pay for them. The seller may not refuse to accept payment or fail to deliver an item for which they have accepted payment. They may not send an item different to that described or pictured in the listing. For more information about our Seller Non-Performance policies, please copy the following link into a new browse window: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policie...rformance.html Having said that, we have investigated your report and I can confirm that we have taken the appropriate action. Privacy is a priority at eBay at all times so we're not able to share the details of the actions we take. They can range from issuing the seller an informational alert, a temporary suspension, an indefinite suspension or terminating the member's account. Bear in mind that not all of the actions we take are visible to other members or evident immediately." That's that then, nowt more can be done...........

20 Oct 2010, 00:43	#24
allrevvedup "Most things that i worry about, never happen anyway" Join Date: 29.11.2003 Location: Liverpool Posts: 5,351	standard eBay email, says a lot without saying anything at all.