Something I'd never noticed about Bat Out of Hell

[Cozzie]

Stick with me here...

Bat Out of Hell is my favourite album of all time, I own four copies and have listened to it thousands of times. When thinking about its genius this evening I had a very unusual thought...

The running order is palindromic in terms of genre and style (the same forwards as it is backwards.)

Consider this...

1. Bat Out of Hell - An epic bookend to the album which dramatically builds on several occasions
2. Took the words... - A theatrical story song focusing on teenage romance
3. Heaven Can Wait - A heartfelt ballad
4. All Revved Up... - The party rock song
5. Two Out of Three... - A heartfelt ballad
6. Paradise by the Dashboard Light - A theatrical story song focusing on teenage romance
7. For Crying Out Loud - An epic bookend to the album which dramatically builds on several occasions

Has anyone else ever thought this? Am I ridiculously over-thinking this? Was it intentional? Or merely, a coincidence?

[AndrewG]

It's an interesting analysis. I know that many artists in fact will structure music in a certain way which may go completely unnoticed whether this is by style/running order as you point out or through musical technicalities. It's a reason why I've recently been drawn to Imogen Heap, I guess in my search for more depth and complex music. She has used the fibonacci series to structure the timing of her music and on her latest album also used 6 major keys and 6 minor keys for her songs (all different) + improv piece. Lots of artists I am guessing will try and stick to some type of structure or even theme to make an album a cohesive piece of work and not just a bunch of songs.

I guess what you could say against your analysis is:

* We are only dealing with 7 songs, was this by choice or simply running length and did the fact that we could only have a restrictive 23 minutes of music on each side of the original LP not influence the actual order thus perhaps debunk your theory?
* Paradise is more than a story focusing on teenage romance I'd say, it in fact takes us through the introduction, fun, sex, broken promises and ultimate crashing of a relationship. This I think is a bit different than Took the words. But there are similarities in its setup I agree.
* All Revved Up originally contained the slow blues rock intro which was probably dropped because of running length of the LP. I'm not sure it's therefore a simple party rock song in that sense but perhaps.
* FCOL, although containing vast dynamics like Bat is obviously a different type of song. It's interesting to note the album ends on "I love you", I think this was intentional?

It's an interesting hypothesis you point out but I'm not so sure it was intentional in that respect looking at the arguments against this.

I do think that the inclusion of Dead Ringer For Love on later CD releases was completely stupid and kind of destroys the unity of the 7 songs of Bat.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

* All Revved Up originally contained the slow blues rock intro which was probably dropped because of running length of the LP.

Indeed. In fact listening to it yesterday I felt pretty certain that the original intro had been recorded at some point and then chopped off. The very beginning of the saxomaphone sounds a bit too crisp if that makes sense.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Holy One

Indeed. In fact listening to it yesterday I felt pretty certain that the original intro had been recorded at some point and then chopped off. The very beginning of the saxomaphone sounds a bit too crisp if that makes sense.

that and the obvious echo at the beginig before the sax.

Its very obvious something was chopped off at the begining.

I hope the full version of especially all revved up shows up at some point.

My guess it was basically the My Fathers Place arrangement

[L96]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It's interesting to note the album ends on "I love you", I think this was intentional?.

Does it? Hadn't noticed that. There could be a whole new rage of deciphering the meaning of entire albums based on the final line of the final song.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I do think that the inclusion of Dead Ringer For Love on later CD releases was completely stupid and kind of destroys the unity of the 7 songs of Bat.

Also the later addition of Bolero and BOOH live. That kills off the palindrome theory. If the palindrome theory was true, then shouldn't the format have been carried over to Bat II? That said, in favour of the palindrome theory, it would make sense to build up from the beginning of the album to the energy of All Revved Up then taper off again, which kind of reflects human focus/action/ability/psyche.

Interesting theory.

[Wario]

Also:

The combined time of Bat deluxe is this:

BOOH - 9:52
TTW - 5:05
HCW - 4:41
ARU - 4:20
TOOT - 5:24
PBTDBL - 8:19
FCOL - 8:50
Bolero / BOOH LIVE - 15:03
DRFL - 4:23

TOTAL TIME: 1 Hour-6 minutes-6 seconds

Thats 6-6-6 .... THE DEVIL

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Holy One

No it isn't. It's quite clearly 1:06:16 or 66:16.

huh? Its clearly 66:06

[Couch Potato]

This is most people structure albums/set lists

The rule of thumb I have when playing with any bands, and Im not one to take over, but start with 3 songs to hit them in the face, take it down, bring it back up, leave them wanting more, give them a 'slow' one then end with an epic (all right now, sweet caroline, cant take my eyes off you etc) so its a general 'rule' of thumb is the music business

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Couch Potato

This is most people structure albums/set lists

The rule of thumb I have when playing with any bands, and Im not one to take over, but start with 3 songs to hit them in the face, take it down, bring it back up, leave them wanting more, give them a 'slow' one then end with an epic (all right now, sweet caroline, cant take my eyes off you etc) so its a general 'rule' of thumb is the music business

Most of Meat's other albums don't follow that rule so how do you explain that?
I actually don't think that FCOL is the type of song that necessarily makes the audience long for more. At almost 9 minutes and everything that is thrown at that track it's more of a "this is all we can give" type of song, thus a perfect end in my opinion. Hence the other bonus tracks added later are absolutely unnecessary imo.

[daveake]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

At almost 9 minutes and everything that is thrown at that track it's more of a "this is all we can give" type of song, thus a perfect end in my opinion. Hence the other bonus tracks added later are absolutely unnecessary imo.

Exactly how I see it.

[Couch Potato]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Most of Meat's other albums don't follow that rule so how do you explain that?
I actually don't think that FCOL is the type of song that necessarily makes the audience long for more. At almost 9 minutes and everything that is thrown at that track it's more of a "this is all we can give" type of song, thus a perfect end in my opinion. Hence the other bonus tracks added later are absolutely unnecessary imo.

I disagree totally,

Look at Bat 2, CHSIB, Bat 3, and I think, IMO, with HCTB, 3 hit them in your face songs to start, take it ''down'' a little (taking the tone down) then picking it up back again and finish the album with a slow/to moderately paced song

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Couch Potato

I disagree totally,

Look at Bat 2, CHSIB, Bat 3, and I think, IMO, with HCTB, 3 hit them in your face songs to start, take it ''down'' a little (taking the tone down) then picking it up back again and finish the album with a slow/to moderately paced song

We could have a separate discussion just about that but I just disagree those latter albums have such a definite structure. This has probably more to do with the number of songs than anything else and hence perhaps that is exactly the reason why Bat 1 has such an easily identifiable structure, simply because it's only 7 songs. The pacing is often all over the place on albums that contain more than 10 tracks and it would have to be otherwise it would become boring.
Bat 3:
Fast - Slow - Slow - Fast - Very Slow - Fast - Instrumental - Fast - Slow - Fast - Fast - Fast - Slow - Slow

In contrast BA, BBIS, CHSIB and HCTB all end with a relatively fast/loud song.

I agree however that all albums start with a title track/loud fast song. Even this is debatable though as according to Steinman the first song on his version of Bat 3 would have been Cry to Heaven. you're probably thinking and yes I'd agree on that. The only way I could have seen that working in the context of Bat 3 is if they'd done the Angels Arise choir part as an introduction. It's a damn shame most people will never hear that in their lives.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It's interesting to note the album ends on "I love you", I think this was intentional?

I also noticed only recently the juxtaposition between "Two Out of Three", which opens side 2, with:

"I want you, I need you, but there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you"

To FCOL, which closes the album, with:

"For crying out loud, you know I love you", almost like it's said in exasperation regarding the other song; as well as:

"Baby, you can cry all night", vs. "When you're crying out loud"


Probably not intentional at all, but I thought it was cool, anyway.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I also noticed only recently the juxtaposition between "Two Out of Three", which opens side 2, with:

"I want you, I need you, but there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you"

To FCOL, which closes the album, with:

"For crying out loud, you know I love you", almost like it's said in exasperation regarding the other song; as well as:

"Baby, you can cry all night", vs. "When you're crying out loud"


Probably not intentional at all, but I thought it was cool, anyway.

Indeed it's almost as if the person has changed his mind and does love her after all.

Funny the stories Meat tells when 2 out of 3 is so often used at weddings etc. It's undoubtedly one of Meat's most famous songs here in the UK and hearing everyone singing along with it at gigs, smiling and almost embracing each other whilst doing so seems absolutely crazy considering the lyrics.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Indeed it's almost as if the person has changed his mind and does love her after all.

Exactly...or has actually loved her all along.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Funny the stories Meat tells when 2 out of 3 is so often used at weddings etc. It's undoubtedly one of Meat's most famous songs here in the UK and hearing everyone singing along with it at gigs, smiling and almost embracing each other whilst doing so seems absolutely crazy considering the lyrics.

You're right- it does seem crazy, especially for a wedding. They ought to use Paradise instead.

[madagascar]

Originally Posted by Holy One

Indeed. In fact listening to it yesterday I felt pretty certain that the original intro had been recorded at some point and then chopped off. The very beginning of the saxomaphone sounds a bit too crisp if that makes sense.

I thought exactly the same, while listening to the album yesterday.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

All Revved Up originally contained the slow blues rock intro which was probably dropped because of running length of the LP. I'm not sure it's therefore a simple party rock song in that sense.

I think All Revved Up is the lost masterpiece of Bat 1.

No doubt some people here will have already seen this, but Jim's take on the production of All Revved Up is interesting nonetheless...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUJw9pd3AMY

..."I wan' an Epic ! I wan' an Epic !"

I'd never thought of it before, but it does sound as if the intro was recorded and then cut off - the song starts just so abruptly, which is rare for a Steinman song (?)

[Wario]

Obviously, this is the intro to revved up that was cut from the final album:

YouTube Video

XD

[Sarge]

Since it fits the title of this thread, I'll put my observation here. I watched Run Silent, Run Deep (old submarine flick starring Clark Gable and Burt Lancaster) the other day. In one of the final scenes the U.S. submarine attacked a Japanese vessel and when its torpedos hit the ship, there was music that reminded me that much of the intro to Bat Out Of Hell that I expected the song to kick in at any minute.

[duke knooby]

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

Obviously, this is the intro to revved up that was cut from the final album:



XD

you say obviously, jim says...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUJw9pd3AMY

Originally Posted by Sarge

Since it fits the title of this thread, I'll put my observation here. I watched Run Silent, Run Deep (old submarine flick starring Clark Gable and Burt Lancaster) the other day. In one of the final scenes the U.S. submarine attacked a Japanese vessel and when its torpedos hit the ship, there was music that reminded me that much of the intro to Bat Out Of Hell that I expected the song to kick in at any minute.

interesting, what vintage is that film??

again... jims thoughts lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxQ9wZvyps


they been linked too many times, but i still find them funny

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

what vintage is that film??

Late 1950s, I guess. It's probably a coincidence but it made me notice how Hollywood-like Steinman's music is sometimes.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

you say obviously, jim says...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUJw9pd3AMY



interesting, what vintage is that film??

again... jims thoughts lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxQ9wZvyps


they been linked too many times, but i still find them funny

Gee, I thought Jim just stole everything from Springsteen.

In all seriousness, I just watched the "Heaven Can Wait" clip, and I just love the way Jim plays it...I could listen to that all day.

Just a gorgeous, gorgeous song.