I Won't Buy a "Copy Controlled" Album

[Agent1]

Much like the title says, I'm not going to buy a CD that says it is "Copy Controlled". If these record companies would learn the simple fact that if you can hear it, you can copy it, they might stop inconveniencing the common consumers like you or I.

I bought CHSIB from England and once it was shipped and arrived, I listened and liked it a lot. I copied the tracks from the CD onto my hard drive and listen to those instead of taking the CD out of the case every time. There is nothing about this that is "stealing" or illegal, so I don't have a problem with it.

I liked CHSIB enough that I planned on buying another copy from a local store so that they would see people here liked it. However, when I walked into the store and picked up the CD, it mentioned on the front that it was "Copy Controlled" and to check an EMI site for information. I put the CD down and left. I'm not going to support any company that uses this sort of thing on their CDs, and Meat Loaf's music is no exception. I love listening to it, but I will have to live with what I already have if all of the CDs in the future are "copy controlled" like this one.

[Juan Llanos]

I supossed that this post finally is going to be move to "The Fight Club".

I waited for a long long time for a real new album of Meat, so when it cames I move the earth to get it, I have a germany copy (with copy control), I brought it to a Barcelona shop who has to ordered from Germany... I'm don't mind the copy control, maybe in other disc I'll think it about it, but not with Meat....

The Spanish edition doesn't have the copy control (I belive, I don't yet buy it)

[little_dancer]

Forgive my naivity, but what is the difference between a 'copy controlled' CD and a regular one ( apart from the obvious- that it can't be copied) Is one of inferior quality- i.e would one wear out faster?
Just curious, I don't know much about CD technology.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by ongapisa

I supossed that this post finally is going to be move to "The Fight Club".

If I get involved maybe

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by ongapisa

I supossed that this post finally is going to be move to "The Fight Club".

Why should it? Agent1 has a vaild point, and instead of assuming it'll turn out nasty, you could encourage a normal debate about this...

Originally Posted by little_dancer

Forgive my naivity, but what is the difference between a 'copy controlled' CD and a regular one ( apart from the obvious- that it can't be copied) Is one of inferior quality- i.e would one wear out faster?
Just curious, I don't know much about CD technology.

[geek mode]The main difference between a normal CD and a copy-controlled one is that a copy-controled CD is not a CD. It's just a little plastic disc, which looks and behaves like a CD, but isn't.
Copy protection works usally by manipulating the Table of Contents (T.O.C.) of the disc (the information where the tracks start, etc). By doing that, PC's can't read the CD -- and there you have the 'wanted' result. The main thought being here: "If you can't play it with your computer, you can't copy it".
Still, you might ask, why isn't it a CD? Simple: by manipulating the T.O.C., the resulting disc does not meet the so-called 'Red Book' standard, to which all CD's must comply. By doing that, the potential CD has just reduced itself to a ordinary plastic disc.
Please do note that copy protected discs may not carry the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo. That logo is reserved for all data-carriagers which do comply to the Red Book Standard. CDs.
This does, by the way, not mean that copy protected discs sound worse than CDs.[/geek mode]

[rant]But like Agent1 said -- copy protection is useless. If one wants to copy a CD, and he/she is determined enough to do it, he/she WILL succeed.
And to all you record companies I say: Yes, go ahead and blame us consumers for declining sales. Go ahead and protect your 'CDs'. That will help. Because, the decline in sales could have certainly nothing to do with an overkill of over-compressed, pre-chewed and cover-infested albums by those so-called (manufactured) 'pop stars'. Instead of signing all the final candidates of your local 'pop idol' contests, sign one or two really good acts who deserve a contract.
And give us value for money dammit! Make those CD's worth being bought!
All what copy protection will result to, is that you can't legally create audiofiles from your own collection for use on your own pc/portable mp3-player, angry customers, and an even further decrease of sales.[/rant]

So. That's of my chest.

William

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by little_dancer

Forgive my naivity, but what is the difference between a 'copy controlled' CD and a regular one ( apart from the obvious- that it can't be copied) Is one of inferior quality- i.e would one wear out faster?
Just curious, I don't know much about CD technology.

I have no idea ....
the DIST CD single I bought is Copy Controlled, and I don't think there's any difference in the quality.

Vicki

[Winston]

The only difference is that it can't be copied. There is no difference in the quality of the CD.

[little_dancer]

Thanks for the info guys (This explains why I couldn't play my CD at work, or in my friends car- I'm glad to know it isn't just the CD I bought)
thanks again for the information, Vicki, and Evil Nickname!
cheers
Leah

[The Flying Mouse]

Accordig to the law,every time you copy media,it is an illegal bootleg.
There is one exception to the rule.If you but a piece of media for somebody who does not have a suitable player,you can copy the media onto another format for that person.
For instance,if you buy your brother a DVD and he does not own a DVD player,you can legally copy the DVD onto a VHS tape for him.The only clause is that you must also give your brother the original DVD to prove that he is entitled to own the copy.

[shadow1000001]

I can totally understand why they are making them "copy controlled". I like to copy tracks to my hard drive and listen to them too, unfortunately, people will also upload them to Bearshare and other file sharing sites which people will download to their hard drives and then never buy the album which ends up hurting the artist in the end.
In my opinion, in order to protect the artist, I can live with a "little inconvience".


Maria

[Fire Ball]

Adding my 2 cents or maybe not my 2 cents, CHSIB has been downloaded
off the internet 2,500,000 times. So far, that is 2 weeks ago.

ML

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by THE FLYING MOUSE

:twisted: Accordig to the law,every time you copy media,it is an illegal bootleg.
There is one exception to the rule.If you but a piece of media for somebody who does not have a suitable player,you can copy the media onto another format for that person.

Hmm.... strange. According to my law, I'm entitled to make a copy for private use, practice and study. Your DVD-example is kinda badly chosen, by the way, since to my knowledge, you can't record the output from a DVD player to a vcr. Protected also. You could make a DVD-rip for use on your PC, however...

Originally Posted by shadow1000001

I can totally understand why they are making them "copy controlled". I like to copy tracks to my hard drive and listen to them too, unfortunately, people will also upload them to Bearshare and other file sharing sites which people will download to their hard drives and then never buy the album which ends up hurting the artist in the end.
In my opinion, in order to protect the artist, I can live with a "little inconvience".

I guess you just touched on the sole reason for the copy protection/disc corruption... file sharing. I do also 'rip' my entire collection to my harddrive (37GB so far), and I never share my own rips. I do however download some songs from p2p-networks to sample albums I've got my eye (and ears) on...
But unlike you, I'm very set against the 'little inconvience' of not being able to rip my own CDs. What's the use of portable mp3-players if all CDs end up being copy corrupted?

[edit: Fire Ball posted while I was posting]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Adding my 2 cents or maybe not my 2 cents, CHSIB has been downloaded
off the internet 2,500,000 times. So far, that is 2 weeks ago.

I've seen it around ever since it was first released in Europe... (don't wory, I bought it, hell, you even personally signed it in Amsterdam)
But may I ask where you got the precise amount of downloads? Afaik, you can't monitor the p2p networks, and even if you could, it sounds like a huge pile of corporate BS to me, maybe just intended to scare you...

And by the way, what is your point of view on this matter? I really like to know...


William

[Jayd]

Much that I disagree with the amount that record companies charge for their products, copying anything, either it a cd, DVD, or VHS it is copyright theft and is illegal. It hurts the careers of performers and artists too, not just the record companies. Maybe the ideal solution is not that far off. But any Meat album I get hold of would have to be the original anyway. Buying the album shiows your utter support.

[heat]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Adding my 2 cents or maybe not my 2 cents, CHSIB has been downloaded
off the internet 2,500,000 times. So far, that is 2 weeks ago.

ML

Bloody hell....

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by evil nickname

Hmm.... strange. According to my law, I'm entitled to make a copy for private use, practice and study. Your DVD-example is kinda badly chosen, by the way, since to my knowledge, you can't record the output from a DVD player to a vcr. Protected also. You could make a DVD-rip for use on your PC, however...

That might be Dutch law,but it's certainly not British law.
If you were allowed to make endless copies of a CD for yourself,the CD would never wear out.Therefore it would never need replacing,therefore effecting sales.

Sorry for the badly chosen example.It was the one given to me by the authorities when I looked into this a while ago .They seemed to think that it got the message over pretty well .

[libertine]

I'm no lawyer, nor am I a copyright expert, but I am a librarian-in-training
I think US copyright law allows the legal owner of the item (be it software, movie, music album, etc) to make a copy for backup purposes. But don't quote me in case I've gotten in way off base...

That said, I didn't copy CD's for other people or to file sharing services for no other altruistic reason than 1) I didn't have the technology until recently and 2) after I got it, it simply never occurred to me to do so... Then I met Kasim and we talked about the reality of an artist's "share" of record sales. Sharing entire albums without compensating the artist seems like my boss asking me to work for free. Not gonna make me a happy camper...

Besides, you'd have to pry the CHSIB and QPQ discs off the CD players as well... Not bl**dy likely to happen any time soon

[Chris]

Under UK law, you can copy media providing it for for your own use only!!

This has never been an issue before because, prior to the launch of home cd-copying technology, all copies have been analogue copies adn therefore reduce in quality each time. The authorities seldom do anything as there would be too much of an outcry if (for example) the general public were told that they can no longer tape CD's onto cassette to play in the car etc. etc.

Personally the only issue i have with copy-protected CD's is the quality of the player software that is included!!! I use my PC for home entertainment rather than stereo and have it hooked up to the tv for playing DVD's etc. I cna play my copy protected version of CHSIB ont he PC but i must use the player that comes on the cd rather than using winamp or similar which is configured to my own personal requirements.

I hae a protected CD which is in the car and use a normal unprotected one on the PC.

[Juan Llanos]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Adding my 2 cents or maybe not my 2 cents, CHSIB has been downloaded
off the internet 2,500,000 times. So far, that is 2 weeks ago.

ML

2,500,000!!! I don't know if it's a good or a bad news.... this meams that people still renember you, but they didn't loving you...

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by THE FLYING MOUSE

That might be Dutch law,but it's certainly not British law.
If you were allowed to make endless copies of a CD for yourself,the CD would never wear out.Therefore it would never need replacing,therefore effecting sales.

Sure is Dutch law :) did some research on it (for all you Dutchies: it's available on my website), so I'm pretty sure how it works.

Being brutally honest now, I really think that is most pathetic argument I've heard as to why it should not be allowed to make a copy of a CD you bought (well, actually that is not quite true either, you buy the right to own a piece of plastic and to play the music that is contained on it). It's like putting a sticker on it: "Thank you for buying this CD. Play it and buy it agian!"
That sounds like an open invitation to make crappy CDs that wear out after a week, in order to boost sales.

Originally Posted by Chris

Under UK law, you can copy media providing it for for your own use only!!

This has never been an issue before because, prior to the launch of home cd-copying technology, all copies have been analogue copies adn therefore reduce in quality each time. The authorities seldom do anything as there would be too much of an outcry if (for example) the general public were told that they can no longer tape CD's onto cassette to play in the car etc. etc.

True. "Home taping is killing music". I do have a promotial copy of Midnight at the Lost and Found with that printed on the back...

Originally Posted by Chris

Personally the only issue i have with copy-protected CD's is the quality of the player software that is included!

I'm not so concerned about the software. I'm more concerned about the awful quality of those .wma files. Which are, in turn, also DRM-protected.

Originally Posted by ongapisa

2,500,000!!! I don't know if it's a good or a bad news.... this meams that people still renember you, but they didn't loving you...

Once again, I don't believe that amount. That does not mean I do not believe that people don't download CHSIB, but with the fact that it is practically impossible to track *all* downloads, I'd like to send that figure back to the department of unbelievable fairytales.
If it were true, however... way to go Meat! Two and a half million people wanted to check out your new album :)

On a last personal note:
I'm very concerned about the way this copy corruption crap is headed. Boycotting those 'CD's is one of the options to do something about it, but seeing the responses to this topic (and similar topics on other boards), I don't think that enough people realize what is going on...
I just see a lot of people blindly accepting corporate BS. Here in The Netherlands, everytime I hear that sales of CDs have gone down, they blame downloading directly. They never even start to consider the option there might be something structurally wrong with, say, the prices, the value-for-money-factor, or other factors. No, it's straigh away "downloading is killing music". I know for a fact that ever since I got the option to 'pre-listen' albums before buying them I am a) never disappointed with what I buy, and b) buying more CDs on a yearly basis.
But as far as those record executives are concerned... that never happened.

William

[mariella]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Adding my 2 cents or maybe not my 2 cents, CHSIB has been downloaded
off the internet 2,500,000 times. So far, that is 2 weeks ago.

ML

Seems like a Lot more than just your '2 cents', yes.
But a very impressive number, so that's the 'good part', I gues.

Great day to you,

Mariella

[shadow1000001]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Adding my 2 cents or maybe not my 2 cents, CHSIB has been downloaded
off the internet 2,500,000 times. So far, that is 2 weeks ago.

ML

I wonder how many of these people will actually buy the album. Probably not many.


Maria

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by shadow1000001

I wonder how many of these people will actually buy the album. Probably not many.


Maria

I know .. that's the sad thing
Vicki

[Michel]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Adding my 2 cents or maybe not my 2 cents, CHSIB has been downloaded
off the internet 2,500,000 times. So far, that is 2 weeks ago.

ML

But there is a simple reason for that. Fans always buy the CD of there favourite artist. People who like the music, but are not fans will not buy the CD, because it is too expensive. CD's are very expensive, a normal DVD is cheaper. If you make CD's a few euro's/dollars cheaper, people will buy more original CD's.

About the copy control. It is easy to crack. I also ripped the CD and put the songs on my hard disk. Not for sharing, but just for listening to it. I've done that with every Meat CD.

[little_dancer]

Yes Maria and Vicki, that's the problem at hand-many people will not buy ANY Cd's they will ONLY copy. Hopefully the technology WILL improve so that the CD's will be compatible to all players, but not copy-able, Is this possible?

My own opinion: I don't copy CD's so it doesn't really affect me. It's too bad I can't listen to many of these copy-protected Cd's in the car, but it's a minor inconvenience compared to a major industry problem. (industry problem- the illegal copying, and sharing of copy-righted materials)

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by Michel

But there is a simple reason for that. Fans always buy the CD of there favourite artist. People who like the music, but are not fans will not buy the CD, because it is too expensive. CD's are very expensive, a normal DVD is cheaper. If you make CD's a few euro's/dollars cheaper, people will buy more original CD's.

That's a very good point Michel. I've read that some of the bigger record companies in the U.S. are reducing their prices .... and hopefully that will help.

Vicki