Paradoxes

**RadioMaster** · 19 Apr 2006, 19:34

Under the tread "something with the lyrics" we mentioned some paradoxes in Steinman/Meat songs.
It started with
Wander DOWN the ancient hallway
Im in the room AT THE TOP
This has been already discussed
Now something else came to my head:

Quote:

I was so hypnotised by the smile in your eyes today

actually thats not a steinman lyric, but lets talk about

R.

**RadioMaster** · 21 Apr 2006, 23:41

not really a paradox, but something that came to my mind:
There are some words in the lyrics of ML and JS which are very often.
Just two things now:
Fire
As long as the *s are burning
And into the *
the *s are howling

pit
then im dying at the bottom of a *
like Lazarus from the *s
Or a subway going down to the *s

got more of them?
R.

mszee · 22 Apr 2006, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiomaster

not really a paradox, but something that came to my mind:
There are some words in the lyrics of ML and JS which are very often.
Just two things now:
Fire
As long as the *s are burning
And into the *
the *s are howling

pit
then im dying at the bottom of a *
like Lazarus from the *s
Or a subway going down to the *s

got more of them?
R.

Steinman is famous for his love of word play. Judging by the songs that ML choses he likes this play on words too.

I've noticed the same words in some songs too. Steinman loves to recycle stuff. Lyrics as well as instrumentals.
A kiss is a terrible thing to waste and Lost boys and Golden Girls both have words:"And we'll never be as young as we are right now". And I am sure I heard it in one other song. Objects in a rearview mirror has a lot of Surf's up music in it...

**RadioMaster** · 22 Apr 2006, 13:26

the spoken part "wasted youth"(Jim) on Bat2
begins:
I remember every little thing is if it happend only yesterday, I was barely seventeen...

mszee · 22 Apr 2006, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiomaster

the spoken part "wasted youth"(Jim) on Bat2
begins:
I remember every little thing is if it happend only yesterday, I was barely seventeen...

Well, actually it's a so-called poem which appears first on Bad for Good and is called Love And Death And An American Guitar. Steinman actually made a video to it (horrible, horrible thing) - you can find it in the same place where you've seen DIMP. And the right words are:

I remember every little thing, as if it happened yesterday

You will see a lot of word play in Steinman's lyrics - you can't translate them to yourself literally - a lot of his lyrics are what is called English idioms - you can't translate them literally - they are word play. Does German have anything like that? Unfortunately, I don't know language enough to make a proper comparison for you.

**RadioMaster** · 22 Apr 2006, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiomaster

the spoken part "wasted youth"(Jim) on Bat2
begins:
I remember every little thing is if it happend only yesterday, I was barely seventeen...

AS if it happend only yesterday...
sorry, was a typing error.

mszee · 22 Apr 2006, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiomaster

AS if it happend only yesterday...
sorry, was a typing error.

Did you see the video to Love and Death and an American Guitar? Wanted to see what you thought of it.

**RadioMaster** · 22 Apr 2006, 20:47

dont know this one, can you tell me if it´s available somewhere on the net?

I really think Meat should release a DVD with all of his videos.

mszee · 22 Apr 2006, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiomaster

dont know this one, can you tell me if it´s available somewhere on the net?

I really think Meat should release a DVD with all of his videos.

R, it's on the same site as DIMP. Just poke around there and you will find it.

I would love to have DVD with his videos. I have a tape with Hits Out Of Hell but watched it last time some time ago - have to watch it again. I also think that he doesn't have enough DVDs with his live tours. But who knows how marketing works? Maybe there is not enough demand for it. I went today into specialty used record/tape/CD store and picked up a few things and asked for Bonnie Tyler and they tell me that even record stores that carry rare stuff only buy stuff that re-sells. If they feel that they can't sell it, they won't buy it.

**RadioMaster** · 26 Apr 2006, 22:49

A lyric that is very often too is
"We´ll never be as young as we are right now"
Maybe it´s the same source like "i remember every little thing as if it happend only yesterday"
R.

mszee · 27 Apr 2006, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiomaster

A lyric that is very often too is
"We´ll never be as young as we are right now"
Maybe it´s the same source like "i remember every little thing as if it happend only yesterday"
R.

There is another one for you...

"You can hide away forever..." - it keeps on appearing from song to song

Ross · 27 Apr 2006, 01:52

When listening to Whistle Down the Wind I found it interesting listening out for the repeated imagery and metaphors - there are quite a few. "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" gets a reference in The Prayer by The Man.

mszee · 27 Apr 2006, 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

When listening to Whistle Down the Wind I found it interesting listening out for the repeated imagery and metaphors - there are quite a few. "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" gets a reference in The Prayer by The Man.

To my great embarassment I don't know either. I read lyrics of Whistle Down The Wind...who sings it and where one can hear it? Also, where can you find The Prayer By The Man.

There's a prayer for the living and the dying
There's a prayer to soothe the savage sea
There's a prayer it seems for almost everything
but you haven't got a prayer for me
And I,
I haven't got a prayer
So many cries in the night that you try to ignore
Why didn't I do that? Why didn't I do this ?
So many unbroken chains, so many unsettled scores

Is that the one?

Help!!!

Ross · 27 Apr 2006, 13:04

Yeh that's the one - know that I think about it, I think it's called Unsetted Scores.

The kids are playing softball in the fading summer night
The teenage lovers at the drive-in, the glow of dashboard light

mszee · 28 Apr 2006, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Yeh that's the one - know that I think about it, I think it's called Unsetted Scores.

The kids are playing softball in the fading summer night
The teenage lovers at the drive-in, the glow of dashboard light

Well...

So many cries in the night that you try to ignore
Why didn't I do that? Why didn't I do this ?
So many unbroken chains, so many unsettled scores

This certainly sounds familiar...boy, does he recycle or what...

rockfenris2005 · 29 Apr 2006, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Yeh that's the one - know that I think about it, I think it's called Unsetted Scores.

The kids are playing softball in the fading summer night
The teenage lovers at the drive-in, the glow of dashboard light

When I sang this, once, (live), I changed the lyric to:

The teenage lovers at the drive-in, paradise by the dashboard light

rockfenris2005 · 29 Apr 2006, 08:41

The Future Ain't What It Used To Be is a classic example:

It starts with the MTYD (Dead Ringer) intro
Then New Orleans is Comin' to Me from CONFIDENCE MAN (basically the whole song, same tune.. and even some of Ray's lyrics reworked to Steinman standards

The chorus is the same chord progression as the start of FCOL and "let the revels begin" in TIWIMTBY.. and also the same as the opening verse of CARPE NOCTEM "Seize the Night".
The instrumental is the intro to "SURF'S UP"
The end of the instrumental is the same little piano line after the repeat of the chorus from FCOL.
The end has similar (musical) phrasing to BAD FOR GOOD:
"I wish it wouldn;'t come, but it does..." "I know that you'll be bad for good..."

And it fades out.

mszee · 06 May 2006, 18:36

I think I just found something for this thread:

In Steinman's Bad For Good these are the lyrics:

I want to wrap myself around you like a winter skin

Interesting, since winter skin is usually considered dry and chapped. Although this is not precisely a paradox...it certainly is a strange comparison.

I am not dumb enough not to understand that Steinman probably meant fur...but that's not what he wrote...

**RadioMaster** · 06 May 2006, 20:28

I think JS aint dumb. If he´s is writing something he really thinks about a looooooong time, for me, there could be two ways who it could be ment:
1. It´s a deeper metaphoric thing that I dont understand or
2. It is this typical Steinman sense of humor with putting two opposite things together like we´d already discussed.
But a interessting thing.
R.

PS: To go just a little off-topic:
I didn´t want to start a new thread, because i dont think that it´s so important but:
I´ve noticed that the piano part in the intro of "I´d lie for You" is nearly the same like the melody in the chorus of "Keep on loving You" by "REO Speedwagon"

mszee · 06 May 2006, 20:44

I never said he is dumb...but if you're not a very close fan - just admire him -and you trace his songs in the progression they were written...you will see how he likes to recycle things - both lyrics and instrumentals - no offense to die hard Steinman's fans. Even Meat Loaf mentions it in his book.

However, I honestly believe that the winter skin is a goof...I absolutely believe that in the content of the song he meant it as fur/warm...but when he put "winter skin" it meant something entirely different which he didn't catch either because he was still young at the time, or because he is a man and doesn't think in the same terms as women - winter skin, i.e. dry, blotchy and generally unattractive...just a curious cute fact...I am sure nobody will take him to court for this - it is just such a small thing...

I know I'd lie for you very well but I have problems finding REO Speedwagon chorus to compare - I am not that familiar with the band. If and when I will find it and listen to it - I will be sure to comment.

Sapphire Lady · 06 May 2006, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiomaster

I´ve noticed that the piano part in the intro of "I´d lie for You" is nearly the same like the melody in the chorus of "Keep on loving You" by "REO Speedwagon"

Definitely agree with that. I've always thought these 2 intros are very similar.

Although it's not a Steinman composition, it's a nice example of a paradox - I'd lie for you (and that's the truth).

mszee · 06 May 2006, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapphire Lady

Definitely agree with that. I've always thought these 2 intros are very similar.

Although it's not a Steinman composition, it's a nice example of a paradox - I'd lie for you (and that's the truth).

How about guitar intro on Don Henley's Heart of the Matter? I wasn't paying attention to it until my attention was brought to the piano part of the intro...guitar intro sounds just like shortened version of Don Henley's...

needmoremeat · 06 May 2006, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mszee

I absolutely believe that in the content of the song he meant it as fur/warm...but when he put "winter skin" it meant something entirely different which he didn't catch either because he was still young at the time, or because he is a man and doesn't think in the same terms as women - winter skin, i.e. dry, blotchy and generally unattractive...just a curious cute fact...I am sure nobody will take him to court for this - it is just such a small thing...

That's odd: I never thought of winter skin as being dry and blotchy! I always thought of it as something warm and comforting in that context that it's used. Maybe I'm too young to care about blotchy winter skin, or maybe at the time and place of writing it didn't mean what it means in the new face cream adverts in the UK now?

21 Apr 2006, 23:41	#2
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	not really a paradox, but something that came to my mind: There are some words in the lyrics of ML and JS which are very often. Just two things now: Fire As long as the s are burning And into the the s are howling pit then im dying at the bottom of a like Lazarus from the s Or a subway going down to the s got more of them? R.

22 Apr 2006, 13:26	#4
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	the spoken part "wasted youth"(Jim) on Bat2 begins: I remember every little thing is if it happend only yesterday, I was barely seventeen...

22 Apr 2006, 20:47	#8
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	dont know this one, can you tell me if it´s available somewhere on the net? I really think Meat should release a DVD with all of his videos.

26 Apr 2006, 22:49	#10
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	A lyric that is very often too is "We´ll never be as young as we are right now" Maybe it´s the same source like "i remember every little thing as if it happend only yesterday" R.

27 Apr 2006, 01:52	#12
Ross Best Sig and Avatar 2006!!! (shared) Join Date: 25.11.2003 Location: Coatbridge near Glasgow. Scotland Posts: 3,446	When listening to Whistle Down the Wind I found it interesting listening out for the repeated imagery and metaphors - there are quite a few. "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" gets a reference in The Prayer by The Man.

27 Apr 2006, 13:04	#14
Ross Best Sig and Avatar 2006!!! (shared) Join Date: 25.11.2003 Location: Coatbridge near Glasgow. Scotland Posts: 3,446	Yeh that's the one - know that I think about it, I think it's called Unsetted Scores. The kids are playing softball in the fading summer night The teenage lovers at the drive-in, the glow of dashboard light

29 Apr 2006, 08:41	#17
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	The Future Ain't What It Used To Be is a classic example: It starts with the MTYD (Dead Ringer) intro Then New Orleans is Comin' to Me from CONFIDENCE MAN (basically the whole song, same tune.. and even some of Ray's lyrics reworked to Steinman standards The chorus is the same chord progression as the start of FCOL and "let the revels begin" in TIWIMTBY.. and also the same as the opening verse of CARPE NOCTEM "Seize the Night". The instrumental is the intro to "SURF'S UP" The end of the instrumental is the same little piano line after the repeat of the chorus from FCOL. The end has similar (musical) phrasing to BAD FOR GOOD: "I wish it wouldn;'t come, but it does..." "I know that you'll be bad for good..." And it fades out.

06 May 2006, 18:36	#18
mszee Mega Loafer Join Date: 29.03.2006 Location: And you think you're down under??? Posts: 26,252	I think I just found something for this thread: In Steinman's Bad For Good these are the lyrics: I want to wrap myself around you like a winter skin Interesting, since winter skin is usually considered dry and chapped. Although this is not precisely a paradox...it certainly is a strange comparison. I am not dumb enough not to understand that Steinman probably meant fur...but that's not what he wrote...

06 May 2006, 20:28	#19
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	I think JS aint dumb. If he´s is writing something he really thinks about a looooooong time, for me, there could be two ways who it could be ment: 1. It´s a deeper metaphoric thing that I dont understand or 2. It is this typical Steinman sense of humor with putting two opposite things together like we´d already discussed. But a interessting thing. R. PS: To go just a little off-topic: I didn´t want to start a new thread, because i dont think that it´s so important but: I´ve noticed that the piano part in the intro of "I´d lie for You" is nearly the same like the melody in the chorus of "Keep on loving You" by "REO Speedwagon"

06 May 2006, 20:44	#20
mszee Mega Loafer Join Date: 29.03.2006 Location: And you think you're down under??? Posts: 26,252	I never said he is dumb...but if you're not a very close fan - just admire him -and you trace his songs in the progression they were written...you will see how he likes to recycle things - both lyrics and instrumentals - no offense to die hard Steinman's fans. Even Meat Loaf mentions it in his book. However, I honestly believe that the winter skin is a goof...I absolutely believe that in the content of the song he meant it as fur/warm...but when he put "winter skin" it meant something entirely different which he didn't catch either because he was still young at the time, or because he is a man and doesn't think in the same terms as women - winter skin, i.e. dry, blotchy and generally unattractive...just a curious cute fact...I am sure nobody will take him to court for this - it is just such a small thing... I know I'd lie for you very well but I have problems finding REO Speedwagon chorus to compare - I am not that familiar with the band. If and when I will find it and listen to it - I will be sure to comment.