Michael J Fox

[AndrewG]

Regardless of politcal views can I make clear I COMPLETELY disagree with George W Bush's veto to overrule stem cell research funding.

Watching a brief clip of an interview with Michael J Fox, who I grew up with seeing in the Back to the Future films, suffering from Parkinson's was heartbreaking.


I hope cures can be found for all critical illnesses and wish the world's focus would shift to that instead of starting new wars.

Keep well Michael.


Peace to all.

[Pudding]

George.W.Bush is f*cking tool, Stem cell research has so much potential to save lives and cure illnesses it beggars belief.

What I find ironic about all these right wing Christian assholes is, they say they're against any form of killing of lives, yet they're doing just that by not allowing medicine to advance forward.

Pud

[L96]

Stem cell research is pushing the boundaries though. It's not that far removed from cloning, which has huge ethical and moral issues.

Add to that, policing of these technologies, and it's a stirring pot for trouble.

[Pudding]

You can monitor something better that's above the table than something that's below it.

If you had a kid with a heart defect and they gave your kid a year to live, and all the heart transplants from other people didn't work, but the science was there to create an exact organ match for your kid, you really wouldn't give a sh!t what moral or ethical issues are being pushed.

Pud

[mariella]

Originally Posted by Musicman

Regardless of politcal views can I make clear I COMPLETELY disagree with George W Bush's veto to overrule stem cell research funding.

Watching a brief clip of an interview with Michael J Fox, who I grew up with seeing in the Back to the Future films, suffering from Parkinson's was heartbreaking.


I hope cures can be found for all critical illnesses and wish the world's focus would shift to that instead of starting new wars.

Keep well Michael.


Peace to all.

I hardly ever agree with any decisions Bush makes - but what I see these days makes me sad, very sad...think we live in strange and dangerous times...so, yes Peace To All!

[mariella]

Originally Posted by Pudding

You can monitor something better that's above the table than something that's below it.

If you had a kid with a heart defect and they gave your kid a year to live, and all the heart transplants from other people didn't work, but the science was there to create an exact organ match for your kid, you really wouldn't give a sh!t what moral or ethical issues are being pushed.

Pud

Exactly!

[L96]

Originally Posted by Pudding

If you had a kid with a heart defect and they gave your kid a year to live, and all the heart transplants from other people didn't work, but the science was there to create an exact organ match for your kid, you really wouldn't give a sh!t what moral or ethical issues are being pushed.

Pud

Actually, yes, I would. You may prefer the concept of extended life and to hell with the consequences, I do not. And no, not any religious leanings or similar.

Night and day, dark and light, black and white, life and death. Simple.

[mariella]

I think in all kinds of shades of grey...

[L96]

You just gave a black and white answer though.

[Mick Loaf]

Dangerous thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and we should be careful not to generalise
E.g. 'all these right wing Christian assholes'

I agree with Musicman that it is a sin for MJF (and everyone with the disease) but also side with Lotus96
that you can't ignore moral and ethical issues, otherwise where is the line drawn about what is acceptable?

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by Mick Loaf

Dangerous thread.

Quoted for truth!

Please be careful with this thread and this topic ... an emotive and important one such as this can easily descend into chaotic fights and arguments ... and we all know where that leads

[Skeleton]

I´m Christian and I really try to live my life without breaking ten Commadments but I´m humanbeing.. I break each of the Commadments every day..

In my opinion we could you aborted embroses to cure those who are already human.. After fertilization human is pile of cells nothing more but if they don´t do abortion you get human who can breath air..

It´s a huge question when you are human even when you are in your mothers wound...

[L96]

Sadly, this is one of my soapbox subjects (no, save the comments! ).

Advances in medical technology are amazing, and no, I'm not stupid enough to say that things were better all the time before our current and possible future advances. That said, in the "old days", people would get tired and weak and die, and everyone would mourn them. Now, they get told they have cancer, they might or might not live, and their familiars begin the mourning process before the death, while the unwell individual every day knows they have a fatal disease. Mind you, we all have that fatal disease, it's called life.

Life is fatal, simple as that. You're born, you die, the bit in the middle is called life (to steal a quote). Adapt. We can't live forever, humans or any other life form currently known to mankind (don't even think about throwing aliens into this), we are not built to last forever. How on earth could anyone appreaciate life without the contrast of death? It's like trying to appreacite your vision or hearing, when you don't have the contrast of blindness or deafness. The world is made of polar opposites, that is the way things are.

Live with it. But don't expect the rest of the world to espouse immortality, because frankly, it's not all it's cracked up to be.

And to go back to the earlier question of "would you feel that way if it was your child?". Back at you, guys, what will you feel, if it was your child, and the only way you could access that treatment was to pay out much more money than you will ever see in your lifetime? There is no point indeveloping these technologies if they are out of reach of the common person who hypothetically could benefit from them. If cloning and stem cell research are permitted, let alone encouraged, that is what will happen. The bad guys will have extra ammo, the rich and powerful will have a tool to make them more rich and powerful, and the suckers with dying kids will be more heartbroken, because the kids *could* be saved, but won't be, because the cost is too great,.

[Paul191]

To be honest, I, again, don't agree with Bushes stand point on this. At the end of the day, Humans are all very Intellectual beings and if our intellect causes our race to advance and grow then, I say, let it be. This is one of very few ways that the human race can learn more about themselves and to throw a ban on it all I think is sacrilege. The most commonly asked question in the world is 'Why are we here?' and it is the same people asking the question who are stopping the question being answered.

[L96]

How does stem cell research answer the question "why are we here?"?

[Ageing Bat]

Very emotive subject indeed......

Many of my friends have been pinning their hopes on stem cell research. Not necessarily so that they personally could benefit - for many of them, their time on earth is drawing to a close - but to benefit others in the future. My friends aren't looking for imortality, they're looking for a possible cure to the rapidly progressing terminal illness they suffer from - motor neurone disease. It usually strikes randomly, and there's no preference to male or female. It doesn't just affect those over 60, it can strike in your mid-twenties even. It's the kind of illness and inevitable death you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. I know, because I've witnesses it more than once in my immediate family.

On the other hand, I too am a Christian, and try hard to live my life according to my religious beliefs.

I believe that the gift of life is the most wonderful gift from God that we have. I think the main question perhaps though, is which life is most precious? An unborn child or a person we love who we watch suffer a miserable death?

[L96]

Originally Posted by Ageing Bat

I believe that the gift of life is the most wonderful gift from God that we have. I think the main question perhaps though, is which life is most precious? An unborn child or a person we love who we watch suffer a miserable death?

Good point. And to save the life of the person we love, we need to remove an unbron child that could be loved.

So why not leave well enough alone?

[Paul191]

Originally Posted by Lotus96

How does stem cell research answer the question "why are we here?"?

LOL. You musn't always look at things at face value. I didn't say that it answers the question. I said that if we stop the human race naturally evolving then it will stop us from answering questions such as the one above.

[Ageing Bat]

There will never be a right answer or a wrong answer to the question of which life is more precious.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Ageing Bat

There will never be a right answer or a wrong answer to the question of which life is more precious.

Which is why I disagree with Bush's veto. He thinks he is always right and there is no time for a debate ever according to him.
He's never used a veto in his presidency and now he does. I think a lot of people will be terribly dissapointed as Michael J Fox is.

[Ageing Bat]

However much one debates an issue like this, there will always be disappointments on the one hand and elation on the other. What is a right answer for one person is the wrong one for another, and so the circle of debate will continue to infinity.

However, I do think Bush has made an iffy call on this one - the issue had been debated and a decision reached, which he has now over-ruled..... because he can.

And now we move on to the democracy debate!

[LucyK!]

A very biased opinion I know, but last year my uncle died having had a form of cancer in his blood, and stem cell treatment could have helped. I know very little about this subject but if I thought for one minute that this could have enabled me to have had even just a few more hours with him, surely it can only be a good thing?

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Lotus96

Good point. And to save the life of the person we love, we need to remove an unbron child that could be loved.

So why not leave well enough alone?

So you're saying that it's better for people we know and love to die needlessly, rather than a few cells that have no human lifeform at all?

Just a guess here, no disrespect, but I'd say you don't have any kids at all. I'm a father of 2 with another 1 on the way, my beliefs are in my children, and I'd do anything for them to live a happy and fruitful life.

I also have 2 nephews with muscular dystrophy, which means they'll be lucky to live out their teens. Stem cell research probably won't prevent the inevitable now, but it will help kids in the future stricken with this disorder.

I also find it ironic that most of the people who are against stem cell research aren't vegetarian, therefor they champion the morals of life of a few cells in a dish, yet they'll quite happily eat a slaughtered animal.

Pud

[sunneke]

this is so difficult.... i'm thinking: why veto, can people not think for them selves? What would i do if its my child who's suffering? anything to make it stop!!!! Iff Christian people say no because of the bible i would like to say: iff God did not want this to happen, than he did not make people so clever to find this out???? that, and another point: iff you don't want this to happen, then you have also the right to say no, even iff it is about you're health, or youre child's health.... like some people do with saying no to bloodtransfusion!

[L96]

Originally Posted by Pudding

So you're saying that it's better for people we know and love to die needlessly, rather than a few cells that have no human lifeform at all?

Depends on your definition of "die needlessly" I guess. Living creatures have an expiry date. I would define "needless death" as suicide, drugs, alcohol, accident, etc., rather than illness/disease.

Originally Posted by Pudding

Just a guess here, no disrespect, but I'd say you don't have any kids at all. I'm a father of 2 with another 1 on the way, my beliefs are in my children, and I'd do anything for them to live a happy and fruitful life.

Correct, I have no children, they inevitably disapprove of my parenting style within 3 months of conception. Not going to argue with your dedication to your kids.

Originally Posted by Pudding

I also have 2 nephews with muscular dystrophy, which means they'll be lucky to live out their teens. Stem cell research probably won't prevent the inevitable now, but it will help kids in the future stricken with this disorder.

What would be worse, do you think? Watching the degeneration and preparing everyone for the inevitable, because there is no cure or solution, or watching the degeneration and knowing there is a cure/solution available, but financially and availability-wise, it is out of reach and inaccessable?

Originally Posted by Pudding

I also find it ironic that most of the people who are against stem cell research aren't vegetarian, therefor they champion the morals of life of a few cells in a dish, yet they'll quite happily eat a slaughtered animal.

Pud

It's not the "life" issue I object to. It's the fact that stem cell "research" is not a large step away from genetic engineering, and it's not a big leap from there to cloning. It's not the research per se that is the issue, it's the potential consequences that are of concern.